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Old 05-08-2013, 20:02   #16
Stiletto11
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Sorry here is the actual phrase: We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:12   #17
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And it'll be going beyond the team rooms...

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WARNING: NSFW Graphic Imagery

Congresswoman Speier Alerts Marines To 'F'N Wook' Facebook Page, Sends Letter Urging Action

http://speier.house.gov/images/Corre...es8may2013.pdf
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:02   #18
afchic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
And it'll be going beyond the team rooms...

Richard


WARNING: NSFW Graphic Imagery

Congresswoman Speier Alerts Marines To 'F'N Wook' Facebook Page, Sends Letter Urging Action

http://speier.house.gov/images/Corre...es8may2013.pdf
If half of what she says in those FB posts is true, then she has every right to be pissed.

Sure it is all just harmless fun, until the pics and comments posted are about your wife, sister, daughter, mother.

No I am not being a typical woman who is easily offended. I actually am the one who gets talked to quite often for making men blush. With that being said, there is a huge difference between a girlie pic in someone's locker, and what is being discribed in this letter.
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Old 05-09-2013, 16:35   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
And it'll be going beyond the team rooms...

Richard


WARNING: NSFW Graphic Imagery

Congresswoman Speier Alerts Marines To 'F'N Wook' Facebook Page, Sends Letter Urging Action

http://speier.house.gov/images/Corre...es8may2013.pdf
I must be missing something.

If there is a civilian web site with people in the Marine uniform (not known to be Marines), and offensive captions, unless they are Marines, how is that the Commandant's problem, and is he going to be able to take any action (without violating their free speech rights) if they are?

Can the records of a civilian website be seized and user IDs revealed for possible prosecution because a Representative is unhappy?

Wow. Obviously, this is some juvenile and pathetic humor, but are we really going to UCMJ people for it?

But we have to tolerate pics of two guys in uniform swapping spit in public, and like it?

If something outrageous is posted on PS.com site and it offends someone, are we going to be investigated for it?

Slippery slope.

TR
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Old 05-09-2013, 17:43   #20
Stiletto11
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Isn't Congresswomen Speir the one who bribed Hicks yesterday in an open hearing asking him what assignment he prefers? In other words, shut up and we will help you.
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It is those who believe that written constitutions can protect the individual from the exercise of state power who
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Old 05-09-2013, 17:50   #21
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Does this mean that they will take down the portraits of the current civilian and military chain of command?
Nah. Those images are only degrading to real men.
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Old 05-09-2013, 20:14   #22
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Is it tasteless? yes

Is it juvenile? Yes

Is some of it offensive to women? Yes

But first it is a civilian website.

Second They have a right to express themselves even if it is distasteful. A JEWISH lawyer took up the case for the KKK to demonstrate for free in the late 70's. When asked why he did that he said that they had a right to their opinion no matter how screwed up and that when we begin to censer people opinion because their opinion is unpopular it is the first steps to what happened in Nazi Germany in the 1930's. The courts have upheld this.

Last but not least doesn't she have better things to do other than micromanaging the military? When was the last budget passed? The economy is a mess. we are at war with with a major terror organization worldwide with US troops being killed and wounded daily yet she is pissed because some 18 y/o boys are acting like........well 18 year olds. If congress was as interested in doing their job as she is in screwing with the military this country would be in better shape.
Well that certainly didn't take long for the" boys will be boys " to come out.

Are they entitled to free speech, sure they are. It just proves that being stupid isn't against the law, but it doesn't make it right. And every time we say boys will be boys, we condone the behavior.

What would you say if one of those women was a subordinate?

If you can't see that the DoD has a very big problem with sexual assault right now, nothing anyone says to is going to change that fact. And the use of websites such as this totally unprofessional, and promotes a work environment that goes against good morale and discipline. It is shit like that that has caused the problems we are experiencing right now. But that is ok, boys will be boys, no harm, no foul. That is until the next asshole thinks that it is ok to sexually assault another member in uniform.

I expected more out of members of this website than "boys will be boys".

Last edited by afchic; 05-09-2013 at 20:21.
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Old 05-09-2013, 22:41   #23
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Boys will be boys...Every unit I served in prior to the MFO was male only. Boys were boys and the trash talk and jokes ran the gamut. The modern day Army/AF/USMC/Navy/USCG is way different. Guys that have been in Infantry units, SF, etc. haven't had to deal with the PC police like the coed units have. Has the behavior been ignored and pushed aside in the past for all male units? Yes. Is that going to continue? Probably not.

BTW, the first female medic I met in the MFO was a Sergeant and I was as well. First thing she said to me was that her "cock" was bigger than mine and proceeded to show me her 12 inch long Peacock tattoo at one of the bars on base. She used to hang out at some of the same bars at Bragg that I did it turned out!

My wife is an artist...she did a nude pen and ink drawing for me and sent it to me while I was in the Sinai. I kept it in my room, but had to put it away any time there was an inspection of my billet. I lived in a room by myself at the time. This was in the 87-88 time frame.

BTW..."sexual assault", in any form is wrong...I don't condone it in any way shape or form.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:03   #24
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Has intellectual consistency gone entirely out of fashion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
Is it tasteless? yes

Is it juvenile? Yes

Is some of it offensive to women? Yes

But first it is a civilian website.

Second They have a right to express themselves even if it is distasteful. A JEWISH lawyer took up the case for the KKK to demonstrate for free in the late 70's. When asked why he did that he said that they had a right to their opinion no matter how screwed up and that when we begin to censer people opinion because their opinion is unpopular it is the first steps to what happened in Nazi Germany in the 1930's. The courts have upheld this.

Last but not least doesn't she have better things to do other than micromanaging the military? When was the last budget passed? The economy is a mess. we are at war with with a major terror organization worldwide with US troops being killed and wounded daily yet she is pissed because some 18 y/o boys are acting like........well 18 year olds. If congress was as interested in doing their job as she is in screwing with the military this country would be in better shape.
How does the position you stake out in this thread square with your previous posts bemoaning the decline of morals in America. Is it your position that different groups of Americans should be held to different standards of moral conduct?

Also, given your frequent references to the Constitution and the original intent of the framers, why shouldn't a member of the House Armed Services Committee, especially one who sits on subcommittees tasked with oversight and investigations, and readiness take an interest in this topic?

Finally, what primary sources and/or secondary works do you have in mind when you argue that "censer[ing] people opinion" because their opinion was unpopular was one of the "first steps" towards the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1930s? I ask because I follow some guy named Richard J. Evans on Twitter and--based on your say so--I will gladly send him a snarky comment (totaling no more than 140 characters) that he doesn't know what he's been doing the last forty years or so. (Geoff Eley and Ian Kershaw and Peter Fritzsche and Peter Longerich and David Crew apparently don't Tweet. #OMFG! No worries. I'll send those Luddites some angry letters via post.)
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:07   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afchic View Post
Well that certainly didn't take long for the" boys will be boys " to come out.

Are they entitled to free speech, sure they are. It just proves that being stupid isn't against the law, but it doesn't make it right. And every time we say boys will be boys, we condone the behavior.

What would you say if one of those women was a subordinate?

If you can't see that the DoD has a very big problem with sexual assault right now, nothing anyone says to is going to change that fact. And the use of websites such as this totally unprofessional, and promotes a work environment that goes against good morale and discipline. It is shit like that that has caused the problems we are experiencing right now. But that is ok, boys will be boys, no harm, no foul. That is until the next asshole thinks that it is ok to sexually assault another member in uniform.

I expected more out of members of this website than "boys will be boys".
Or perhaps this illustrates why it never was a good idea to allow women in the military at all?
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:41   #26
uspsmark
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"Hagel: Troops' workplaces will be checked for 'degrading' images of women"

So...if I printed out a copy of afchic's avatar picture and put it up in my DoD office, it would have to be removed under these rules. Just an observation.
I really don't see how that will curb sexual assaults.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:24   #27
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"Hagel: Troops' workplaces will be checked for 'degrading' images of women"

I really don't see how that will curb sexual assaults.
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Ah - the irony.

Richard
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:56   #28
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BTW, the first female medic I met in the MFO was a Sergeant and I was as well. First thing she said to me was that her "cock" was bigger than mine and proceeded to show me her 12 inch long Peacock tattoo at one of the bars on base. She used to hang out at some of the same bars at Bragg that I did it turned out!

That's no daisy.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:48   #29
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Separating the wheat from the chaff must be hard....LINK

False reports outpace sex assaults in the military

False complaints of sexual abuse in the military are rising at a faster rate than overall reports of sexual assault, a trend that could harm combat readiness, analysts say.

Virtually all media attention on a Pentagon report last week focused on an increase in service members’ claims of sexual abuse in an anonymous survey, but unmentioned were statistics showing that a significant percentage of such actually investigated cases were baseless.

From 2009 to 2012, the number of sexual abuse reports rose from 3,244 to 3,374 — a 4 percent increase.

During the same period, the number of what the Pentagon calls “unfounded allegations” based on completed investigations of those reports rose from 331 to 444 — a 35 percent increase.

In 2012, there were 2,661 completed investigations, meaning that the 444 false complaints accounted for about 17 percent of all closed cases last year. False reports accounted for about 13 percent of closed cases in 2009.

Robert Maginnis, a retired Army officer and analyst at the Family Research Council, is writing a book for Regnery Publishing Inc. about the Pentagon’s push to put women in direct ground combat in the infantry, armor and special operations.

“In the course of conducting interviews with commanders, I heard time and again complaints about female service members making sex-related allegations which proved unfounded,” Mr. Maginnis said. “Not only do some women abuse the truth, but it also robs their commanders from more important, mission-related tasks.

“Female service members told me that some women invite problems which lead men on and then result in advances the woman can’t turn off. Too often, such female culpability leads to allegations of sexual contact, assault and then the women feign innocence.”

The annual Pentagon report on sexual assault noted the numbers of false complaints but included no analysis. The Pentagon did not respond to a request for comment.

Elaine Donnelly, who runs the Center for Military Readiness, said the Pentagon's Sexual Assault Response and Prevention Office (SAPRO) is ignoring the problem of false reports.

“Unsubstantiated accusations remain a significant problem, but the SAPRO is doing nothing about it,” Mrs. Donnelly said. “I went through both volumes and found no evidence of concern about the significant 17 percent of ‘unfounded accusations.’ Something should be done to reduce the numbers of false accusations, the first step being an admission that the problem exists.”

The number of sex abuse reports has risen from 1,700 a decade ago to 3,374 last year.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have pushed male and female personnel into close living conditions at a sprawling network of bases.

The existence of unwanted and wanted sexual contact in the war zone is not disputed.

For example, a group of Army physicians in 2010 studied one brigade combat team deployed to Iraq in 2007.

The physicians’ study, published in the Military Medicine journal, examined the number of soldiers who sustained disease or noncombat injuries. Of 4,122 soldiers, including 325 women in support roles, 1,324 had diseases or injuries that forced them to miss time or be evacuated.

“Females, compared with males, had a significantly increased incident-rate ratio for becoming a [disease or noncombat] casualty,” the doctors found.

Of 47 female soldiers evacuated from the brigade and sent home, 35 — or 74 percent — were for “pregnancy-related issues.”

Even before the wars, the Pentagon removed barriers across the board to women and took action to mix the sexes more closely. Men and women share dorms and barracks in boot camp and at the service academies, and deploy in close quarters on ships.

The integration promises to become even more intimate in coming years as the Pentagon places women into training for direct ground combat jobs.

“The latest SAPRO report confirms that problems of sexual assault against both men and women are getting worse, not better,” Mrs. Donnelly said. “Pentagon leaders nevertheless are planning to extend these problems into the combat arms. Congress and the Pentagon first must do no harm. At a minimum, the Obama administration must not be allowed to extend complicated issues of sexual assault, which have increased by 129 percent since 2004, into direct ground combat infantry battalions.”

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel last week announced several steps to eliminate assaults, including ordering commanders to conduct “visual inspections” of all workplaces to ensure they are “free from materials that create a degrading or offensive work environment.”

The Air Force completed such an inspection last year after a female service member complained of persistent harassment.

In January, the Air Force reported the “health and welfare” inspection results:

“The Air Force found 631 instances of pornography (magazines, calendars, pictures, videos that intentionally displayed nudity or depicted acts of sexual activity); 3,987 instances of unprofessional material (discrimination, professional appearance, items specific to local military history such as patches, coins, heritage rooms, log books, song books, etc.); and 27,598 instances of inappropriate or offensive items (suggestive items, magazines, posters, pictures, calendars, vulgarity, graffiti). In total, 32,216 items were reported. Identified items were documented and either removed or destroyed.”

Said Mr. Hagel: “We need cultural change where every service member is treated with dignity and respect, where all allegations of inappropriate behavior are treated with seriousness, where victims’ privacy is protected, where bystanders are motivated to intervene, and where offenders know that they will be held accountable by strong and effective systems of justice.”
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Old 05-19-2013, 22:45   #30
Richard
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Today's 'Stars and Stripes'

Does social media add fuel to servicemembers' degrading actions?

http://www.stripes.com/does-social-m...tions-1.221481

Image of front page of e-edition.

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File Type: jpg SS 19 May 2013.jpg (37.0 KB, 117 views)
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“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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