Army OKs Women as Spec Ops Aviators

[MR2]

Thanks on the females at SERE answers. I didn't know there were more than one Army SERE courses (locations).

In the "Nam" days I recall the AF had a course up in Bangor and the Navy had one somewhere. What and where are the current SERE-type courses being held in today's military and what military courses have SERE built into the course?

I do know that SERE-C is part of the Q for both Off/EM now.

[Jgood]

Don't worry they will fix that and just lower the standard to make sure everybody can pass.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Therein lies the rub.

Why do we have two sets of PT test standards again?

TR

love the we are equal, but wait its not fair I cant do as many push up or sit ups or run as fast.

Should be one standard and a high one at that, want to cut the military make one pt standard and enforce it

[ChuckG]

Originally Posted by Richard

I hope they can read map coordinates and terrain features better than the S**thook crew from the 11th AVN we dealt with on REFORGER once.

It was an all female crew - 2 female pilots and 2 female crew chiefs. We were playing the role of Spetznaz and had a blindfolded and hog-tied two star from V (US) Corps which we'd kidnapped from a forward TOC near Bad Hersfeld, and were being extracted at daylight to bring him back to Camp Worden and the "People's Pond" for questioning. V Corps security elements were hot on our tails and we could see the s**thook flying circles looking for us across the moutain range over in the wrong valley. We were enforcing radio silence and - finally - the CH47 gave up and came flying near enough to us on their way back to their airfield that we nearly hit 'em in the nose with a couple of star clusters to gain their attention before they saw our panels and came for us.

And so it goes...

Richard

It must have just been aviators. On more than one occasion in the 70's, in Germany, we were in Huey's and the pilots would descend to read the road signs to figure out where they were. They were male pilots and would not listen to us in the back.

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

Replies like this one are precisely WHY you have not been banned here, my Brother!

Huh?
You talkin to me? (doing the Queen LaTisha hand thingie)
Search "Bearded One" and read how many people he still keeps awake at night.

Psssst, . . . The Bearded One . . . is coming . . . for YOU! (Sleep well!)

MR2: the Air Force runs their SERE from Fairchild AFB near Spokane WA. Most of the training exercise happens to the north near the town of Kusick (or maybe it starts with a C). Its great .... If you like steep hills and lots of snow. Pretty awesome winter survival training.

Originally Posted by Jgood

Don't worry they will fix that and just lower the standard to make sure everybody can pass.



love the we are equal, but wait its not fair I cant do as many push up or sit ups or run as fast.

Should be one standard and a high one at that, want to cut the military make one pt standard and enforce it

What do those have to do the ability to drive a helo?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by WCH

What do those have to do the ability to drive a helo?

What?

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by WCH

What do those have to do the ability to drive a helo?

Nothing.

But because the 160th's PT standards are higher for guys in that Regiment than they are in the regular Army and since women want to be viewed as equals they may want to first meet "the standard" instead of there being a different one for them.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by WCH

What do those have to do the ability to drive a helo?

Are you familiar with the current 160th SOAR selection and training process?

Does the Army PT standard apply to everyone? Should support personnel maintain themselves in the same condition as ground combatants?

TR

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by Jgood

Don't worry they will fix that and just lower the standard to make sure everybody can pass.



love the we are equal, but wait its not fair I cant do as many push up or sit ups or run as fast.

Should be one standard and a high one at that, want to cut the military make one pt standard and enforce it

I think 160th already did do that. Maybe not "Their" APFT standards. But everything else within "Their" Selection standards. They maybe the best Helo drivers in teh world, but their standards have lowered!!

[69harley]

Aside from the standard for the APFT, are there other standards within the 160th that must be lowered to accomadate females?

As for the female crew getting lost, I have been on birds crew'd by men that have gotten lost, plenty of times.

Would like to think the processes the 160th uses to select, train and asign pilots would prevent a weak pilot out of their operation pool, but heck, even with the current all-male pool of pilots there have been some less than stellar pilots in the 160th. We have all experienced it.

I don't get all the noise being made over females flying in the 160th and yes I am knowledgable about the green platoon and have flown many times on 160th and conventional birds.

[Survival7201]

I haven't had much contact with the USAF/SERE school since getting out in 1984. I started getting back with some guys I trained with. This is a look at Class 13-01. As in Army there are different levels of SERE. This is SST we called it ITB in 71 when I went through. I also went through the Army School at Ft Bragg. Not the same. Lots of stories, but USAF Survival Instructor Training was not the hardest school I attended. Good times though.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

With all respect and good wishes.

Ron

[Dusty]

It's simple. Set a standard. The aspirant either meets or fails, regardless of gender, race or-now-sexual persuasion.

[SF18C]

Originally Posted by Survival7201

I haven't had much contact with the USAF/SERE school since getting out in 1984. I started getting back with some guys I trained with. This is a look at Class 13-01. As in Army there are different levels of SERE. This is SST we called it ITB in 71 when I went through. I also went through the Army School at Ft Bragg. Not the same. Lots of stories, but USAF Survival Instructor Training was not the hardest school I attended. Good times though.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

With all respect and good wishes.

Ron

Are the AF-SERE school horror stories of staying in a 2 star hotel with out room service or cable true?

[Survival7201]

Yes. Yes they are... I have stayed in some very horrible motels... I survived several in North Carolina...

Ron

[Razor]

Originally Posted by 69harley

I don't get all the noise being made over females flying in the 160th and yes I am knowledgable about the green platoon and have flown many times on 160th and conventional birds.

It's not the day-to-day flying that's an issue:

At about 4:20, one of the Black Hawk helicopters, callsign Super 6-1 piloted by CW3 Cliff "Elvis" Wolcott and CW3 Donovan Briley, was shot down by an RPG. Both pilots were killed in the resulting crash and two of the crew chiefs were severely wounded. SSG Daniel Busch and SGT Jim Smith, both Delta snipers, survived the crash and began defending the site.

An MH-6, callsign Star 4-1 and piloted by CW3 Karl Maier and CW5 Keith Jones, landed nearby and Jones left the helicopter and carried Busch to the safety of the Helo (emphasis mine) while Maier provided cover fire from the Little Bird's cockpit, repeatedly and heroically denying order to lift off while his co-pilot was not in the Bird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)