Homeland Security to Border Patrol: Run and Hide

[Gypsy]

Originally Posted by tonyz

LOL...I do remember good ole Rip.

Hopefully we'll all wake up in November to a new POTUS.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Gypsy

Hopefully we'll all wake up in November to a new POTUS.

From your lips...

Originally Posted by echoes

Am a civilian, so pardon my ignorance here....but WHY would they issue this decree in an, "Active Shooter" course?

Makes zero sense to me.

Are they, (DHS) just stupid?

Holly

I don't think they are as concerned with the "Active Shooter" as they are with the weapon(s) that might be used in this situation. Afterall thousands of weapons just went south of the border. If you ask me, they are just trying to minimize anymore deaths/shootings related to Fast and Furious.

Obviously it is not an attempt to save victims lives, it is an attempt to allow the "Active Shooter" to get away, with the weapon. Just my take on it, though.

[GratefulCitizen]

The message to criminals is loud and clear:
Carry a gun, use it.

[Badger52]

Take a re-look at the pamphlet in the opening post. As I said, this stuff was intended to get to the general sheep-like workforce in the Guv, and has been widely distributed in one kind or another across that demographic. It wasn't intended originally for sworn LE; they're the folks that you-the-cowering are supposed to report to (if you survive).

This training has about as much practical value as the CBT for cowering in the back of a hijacked aircraft, while running the equivalent of a rah-rah team building exercise and an MDMP (COA3: Do nothing) while Hasahmed is slitting throats. If you train folks to be corpses you'd better budget for the bags.

It's worth noting that there was really only 1 serious attempt at taking out the VA Tech shooter prior to LE arrival. A young AF ROTC cadet attempted to simply rush the shooter and survivors report he damn near got there, but at least he tried. The shooter went back around to those cowering and put many 2nd rounds into people under their desks for good measure. Had that young man been armed...

The lesson that should remain is not that DHS leadership is paddling fast but from one side of the canoe, it's that trying to apply calm measured thought in a dynamic fast-moving situation like suddenly being in the office with someone who's commenced to murdering people with a gun is a non-starter.

See Team Sergeant's sigline for further guidance.

Originally Posted by Badger52

Take a re-look at the pamphlet in the opening post. As I said, this stuff was intended to get to the general sheep-like workforce in the Guv, and has been widely distributed in one kind or another across that demographic. It wasn't intended originally for sworn LE; they're the folks that you-the-cowering are supposed to report to (if you survive).

This training has about as much practical value as the CBT for cowering in the back of a hijacked aircraft, while running the equivalent of a rah-rah team building exercise and an MDMP (COA3: Do nothing) while Hasahmed is slitting throats. If you train folks to be corpses you'd better budget for the bags.

It's worth noting that there was really only 1 serious attempt at taking out the VA Tech shooter prior to LE arrival. A young AF ROTC cadet attempted to simply rush the shooter and survivors report he damn near got there, but at least he tried. The shooter went back around to those cowering and put many 2nd rounds into people under their desks for good measure. Had that young man been armed...

The lesson that should remain is not that DHS leadership is paddling fast but from one side of the canoe, it's that trying to apply calm measured thought in a dynamic fast-moving situation like suddenly being in the office with someone who's commenced to murdering people with a gun is a non-starter.

See Team Sergeant's sigline for further guidance.

I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Sarski

I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.

Agree, I'd be PO'd too. Not that DHS leadership would be ignorant of what their "employees" actually do...

This one, in a whole litany of FEMA courses, should no more be targeted to the sworn element of BP than I should have to, after 40+ yrs of total service, take the Army "Foundation" course to learn the difference between a PV2 and a 3-star. The difference is that my command has a 3-star who found out about the lunacy, called it out for what it was, and rescinded it. I don't think Big Sis is so prone to do the same.

Some NIMS-kull training developer just probably stuck it on the list and everyone gets painted with the same brush - all victims are equal. It's stupid, DHS screwed the pooch, the union will sort it out because the Admin has been so kind to the folks that helped get them in power.

I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Sarski

I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?

Good point; that will be interesting to watch.

[dfirsty]

Originally Posted by Sarski

I don't know...the guys that seem to be pissed, and those having to take the computer course are the gun toting BP Agents, not your unarmmed accountants and admin assistants. They (agents) are the ones mentioned in the opening of the article.

Thats why I think it had to be a management/administration issue at DHS and BP for this course to be taken. Maybe Bordercop can jump on and fill us in.

Derek

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Sarski

I can't wait for the outcry when the BP Agent does his/her job, downs an active shooter and is reprimanded. Is this what it is coming to?

Like the lifeguard recently fired for saving a drowning swimmer out of his zone?

[greenberetTFS]

This had to be approved at the highest level and that's where Janet comes in......
This has her prints all over it.........

Big Teddy

[Team Sergeant]

This is a national issue and in my opinion has gone septic. This all boils down to not wanting to take responsibility for one actions. Sure run and hide and maybe, just maybe, it will go away. Let's not take any responsibility for our own individual actions.
Whatever happened to the buck stops here?
Has honor, pride, fortitude & integrity died?
Have we arrived at a point where the men of the United States balls are actually shrinking?
When I joined the Army and got to the 82nd Airborne this was the poster I remember and how I feel about all those that would run and hide from the bad-men.......

This poster and it's quote shaped my military career and the way I live my life. Few will ever draw a line in the sand, most prefer to bury their heads in it.
TS


Dec. 23, 1944 - "Battle of the Bulge" - An entire U.S. armored division was retreating from the Germans in the Ardennes forest when a sergeant in a tank destroyer spotted an American digging a foxhole. The GI, PFC Martin, 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, looked up and asked, "Are you looking for a safe place?" "Yeah" answered the tanker. "Well, buddy," he drawled, "just pull your vehicle behind me...

I'm the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are going."

[Bordercop]

I took this course after reading about it here.

I'm not going to get into the politics of it, but suffice it to say I, and 99.9% of the agents I work with, are not going to run and hide if an active shooting is happening. We'll be heading towards the gunfire and I expect the idiot who starts shooting in an office full of Border Patrol Agents will have entrance wounds front, back and on both sides.

Border Patrol agents take protecting the public very seriously and would/will do whatever is necessary to protect the public and themselves if bullets start flying.

I complained to the bosses regarding the idiocy of having armed law enforcement agents being required to take this training and was told it's being looked into...yeah right.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Obviously it is not an attempt to save victims lives, it is an attempt to allow the "Active Shooter" to get away, with the weapon. Just my take on it, though.

So, am curious and concerned....what message this really sends to Our BP Agents?

Do they loose morale and think the American Public doesn't give a sh*t that Our Big O government is sending them out on patrol, with their hands tied behind their backs?

Scary. Just scary if you think about it...those charged with protecting us...with handcuffs on instead of guns in their well-trained hands. Thank you Big O and your STUPIDITY!

Holly