Payton Manning coming to Denver

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Tebow is about as selfless of a player as exists in the NFL.

Then why does he not yet know how to throw a football with the accuracy required of a professional quarterback? Why does he instead needs a bespoke offense?

[Richard]

Tim Tebow: Where does he go now? Four teams that might fit.
CSM, 19 mAR 2012

Tim Tebow is surely gone now that Peyton Manning has chosen to join the Denver Broncos. The question now is whether any team wants to adapt itself to the Tim Tebow style.

Why couldn't Tebow become Manning's understudy?

For one, Tebow is a running quarterback with poor passing skills. He would likely have trouble serving as a backup in an offense tailor-made for Manning, who relies on quick releases from an accurate arm and an ability to read a defenses.

What’s more, Manning is famous for hoarding practice time. In Indianapolis, his backups took few snaps in practice and therefore got little opportunity to learn the offense Manning runs. For Tebow, a fierce competitor who needs to work on his development, such a fate would probably be far worse than being traded.

So who might want Tebow?

By all accounts he is a tireless worker and a fast learner, and the Broncos proved that a team willing to craft an offense around his running style can have success – and even win a playoff game. Moreover, his fervent following would virtually guarantee fans in seats for franchises with attendance problems.

Still, a suitor could be hard to find. Building a team around Tebow means running counter to the current trend in the National Football League of building teams around exceptional passers.

One option is for Tebow to reunite with the coach who drafted him – Josh McDaniels, who is now the offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots. Rumors are swirling that he could end up backing up Tom Brady.

He could also wind up in Green Bay, where the exit of backup Matt Flynn has left room for a solid No. 2.

Another options is the Miami Dolphins, who are looking for star power – and there is no bigger draw for Florida football fans than their native son.

That brings us, inevitably, to the Jaguar in the room. Tim Tebow signing with his hometown Jacksonville Jaguars and reinvigorating the franchise has been a pipe dream for long-suffering Jacksonville fans ever since Tebow was a Florida Gator, an hour away at the University of Florida.

(Cont'd) http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports/...that-might-fit

[tonyz]

Selfless = unselfish = team player...

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Then why does he not yet know how to throw a football with the accuracy required of a professional quarterback? Why does he instead needs a bespoke offense?

And the correlation between throwing an accurate spiral and being a team player is?

Please don't bother with a narrative - that is a rhetorical question from someone who has played with and against some of the better NCAA Division 1 players albeit in another sport.

Like him or not, Tebow is a team player and anyone who has played at a reasonably high level can see and sense it from his play and from the comments made by his teammates and his coaches.

Tebow may or may not make it big in the NFL - but not because he is selfish.

Now, his positions on feminist theory may be wide open for your analysis.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Then why does he not yet know how to throw a football with the accuracy required of a professional quarterback? Why does he instead needs a bespoke offense?

One has nothing to do with the other IMHO. My understanding is his work ethic is above reproach. He shows up to practice early and stays late. He has a Heisman trophy and a national championship, that speaks for itself. His teammates love and respect him. He may not make it in the NFL, but he will be highly successful in whatever he chooses to do with his life. If more people had the selfless nature of tebow, this world would be a better place.

[brokenvan]

As soon as it was mentioned that if Manning went to Denver, Tebow would be traded, I have been Tebowing to make sure it happened.

I've been reading up on the new Jaguars owner, Shahid Khan, and his position is that he would take Tebow in a heartbeat and that the Jags dropped the ball by not drafting him. Jacksonville would benefit significantly from Tebow's presence. Not only is Tebow the most polarizing player in the NFL today and draws huge media attention, he sells huge amounts of merchandise, and everybody in Jacksonville loves him due to him being the hometown hero from both high school and at Florida. He would immediately draw the fans back to Jags games, which has been a huge problem for the past 6 years or so and boost national coverage, saving the Jags from moving elsewhere and bringing in the money they need to draw higher end players to build a playoff caliber team. Maurice Jones-Drew and Tebow would be a mean 1-2 punch in the Jags' rushing game. And anybody on the planet is better than Blaine Gabbert.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Then why does he not yet know how to throw a football with the accuracy required of a professional quarterback? Why does he instead needs a bespoke offense?

You lost me there.....I wrote that he is among the most selfless, not most talented.

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by Richard

Tim Tebow: Where does he go now? Four teams that might fit.
CSM, 19 mAR 2012

Tim Tebow is surely gone now that Peyton Manning has chosen to join the Denver Broncos. The question now is whether any team wants to adapt itself to the Tim Tebow style.

Why couldn't Tebow become Manning's understudy?

For one, Tebow is a running quarterback with poor passing skills. He would likely have trouble serving as a backup in an offense tailor-made for Manning, who relies on quick releases from an accurate arm and an ability to read a defenses.

What’s more, Manning is famous for hoarding practice time. In Indianapolis, his backups took few snaps in practice and therefore got little opportunity to learn the offense Manning runs. For Tebow, a fierce competitor who needs to work on his development, such a fate would probably be far worse than being traded.

So who might want Tebow?

By all accounts he is a tireless worker and a fast learner, and the Broncos proved that a team willing to craft an offense around his running style can have success – and even win a playoff game. Moreover, his fervent following would virtually guarantee fans in seats for franchises with attendance problems.

Still, a suitor could be hard to find. Building a team around Tebow means running counter to the current trend in the National Football League of building teams around exceptional passers.

One option is for Tebow to reunite with the coach who drafted him – Josh McDaniels, who is now the offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots. Rumors are swirling that he could end up backing up Tom Brady.

He could also wind up in Green Bay, where the exit of backup Matt Flynn has left room for a solid No. 2.

Another options is the Miami Dolphins, who are looking for star power – and there is no bigger draw for Florida football fans than their native son.

That brings us, inevitably, to the Jaguar in the room. Tim Tebow signing with his hometown Jacksonville Jaguars and reinvigorating the franchise has been a pipe dream for long-suffering Jacksonville fans ever since Tebow was a Florida Gator, an hour away at the University of Florida.

(Cont'd) http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports/...that-might-fit

Amen to all above... so true.

Tebow will be the QB for Jacksonville for next season.

Denver put a "health clause" in this contract from what I've heard. WTH is with Denver unretiring number 18 from the great Orange Crush year. Frank Tripucka is stated to give tge okay too.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

You lost me there.....I wrote that he is among the most selfless, not most talented.

I am of the school of thought that there's no such thing as "talent," that expertise in a domain of knowledge is a skill, and that such expertise can be taught. When a professional athlete does not refine a central skill set, it is because he/she is either poorly motivated and/or he or she is poorly coached.*

NFL analysts, including HOF "running quarterbacks" John Elway and Steve Young, spent much of last season laying out what Tebow needs to do to be an effective professional quarterback. They did not say anything about Tebow that had not been discussed since his days at Florida. Denver is an organization that excels at player development. It signed a player in the twilight of his career and has decided apparently not to invest any more time in Tebow. MOO, this fact pattern is an implicit indictment of the man's motivation to maximize his potential as a professional athlete.

If Tebow is as selfless as many believe, then why hasn't he either (a) developed the skills that characterize today's winning QB, or (b) shown enough signs for Denver to stand pat, or (c) told his coaching staff to play him at a different position so he could fulfill the needs of the Broncos and bring to bear his athletic and leadership skills?


_______________________________________
* K. Anders Ericsson and Neil Charness, “Expert Performance: Its Structure and Acquisition,” American Psychologist 49:8 (August 1994): 725-747; K. Anders Ericsson, Ralf Th. Krampe, and Clemens Tesch-Römer, “ The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance,” Psychological Review 100:3 (1993): 363-406; Geoffrey R. Norman and Henk G. Scmidt, “The Psychological Basis of Problem-based Learning: A Review of the Evidence,” Academic Medicine 67:9 (September 1992):557-565 provide the information used in this post. Yes, this is a reference that I cut and paste from a previous post.

[akv]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Then why does he not yet know how to throw a football with the accuracy required of a professional quarterback? Why does he instead needs a bespoke offense?

Most NFL teams cater their offense to their QB, Tebow being an extreme example, it's clear no one corrected his long delivery from when he was a kid.

Tom Brady or Manning are excellent dropback passers, but wouldn't be nearly as effective in for example Mike Shanahans offense which requires the QB to bootleg or roll out and throw on the run frequently. Donovan Mcnabb on the other hand was very mobile with a cannon, but not very accurate, he did best when he could roll out and throw deep with his cannon, precise intermediate timing routes were never his thing. Aaron Rodgers can do anything.

Tebow and the Wildcat, are a blast from the past actually, the wildcat is very close to the old single wing offense, which was THE OFFENSE in American football until the 50's. The service academies, the four horsemen of Notre Dame, all ran the single wing. In this offense a big fullback type like Tebow was the primary ball handler, he either ran or threw, the emphasis focused on power running, misdirection, and an occasional long pass.

Tebow is guilty only of not winning the way the current generation is used to seeing QB's win. The NFL isn't about style points, any young QB who takes a 1-4 team to the playoffs and beats Pittsburg should get some credit. I don't know if Tebow will continue to develop and have success, I root for him because he is a winner and a gentleman. Human beings want to be led, and he is an exceptional leader in a team sport.

[Sacamuelas]

I think T'beaux needs to consider being a backup QB for the Carolina panthers. He could backup "Scam" newton... when scam goes down with an injury or grand jury investigation, t'beaux would fit right into the offensive system. His Running backs, linemen, and receivers would already fit the system, and he could keep learning and progressing while warming the bench. Just a thought.....

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I am of the school of thought that there's no such thing as "talent," that expertise in a domain of knowledge is a skill, and that such expertise can be taught.

So, given enough instruction and practice, you could be a highly effective NFL QB?

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

So, given enough instruction and practice, you could be a highly effective NFL QB?

If you want to develop a serious argument about the role of talent, some of the essays in The Road To Excellence: The Acquisition of Expert Performance in the Arts and Sciences, Sports, and Games (1996) might be of interest to you.

Or we can just go with snark. There have been very successful professional football players of all sizes and shapes in the history of the NFL. Why have they succeeded while others like Tebow have not? Did they pray harder or did they do a better job at figuring out what they needed to learn and then put in the work to get better?

The answer to the previous question--if not also yours--is the concept of "directed practice" and what is known popularly as the 10,000 hour rule. That is, if one is properly motivated, has expert coaching, and the ability to put in 10,000 hours of directed practice, then one can achieve a very high level of expertise in a domain of knowledge.*

__________________________________________________ ___
* For a discussion of what constitutes "expertise," I found the essays in K. Anders Ericcson and Jacqui Smith, eds, Toward a General Theory of Expertise: Prospects and Limits (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1991) useful. YMMV.

[akv]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I am of the school of thought that there's no such thing as "talent," that expertise in a domain of knowledge is a skill, and that such expertise can be taught. When a professional athlete does not refine a central skill set, it is because he/she is either poorly motivated and/or he or she is poorly coached.*

NFL analysts, including HOF "running quarterbacks" John Elway and Steve Young, spent much of last season laying out what Tebow needs to do to be an effective professional quarterback. They did not say anything about Tebow that had not been discussed since his days at Florida. Denver is an organization that excels at player development. It signed a player in the twilight of his career and has decided apparently not to invest any more time in Tebow. MOO, this fact pattern is an implicit indictment of the man's motivation to maximize his potential as a professional athlete.

Sig, I would disagree, talent absolutely exists, though talent without practice, discipline, and motivation rarely succeeds and is wasted. If you don't have the prerequisite raw foot speed, a lifetime of dedication and coaching will not get you on the US Olympic sprint team, a lot of folks put in the 10,000 hours or whatever at the piano or chessboard few have the results of a Mozart or Bobby Fisher. Factors such as discipline can influence outcomes where the talent is somewhat comparable. Duke basketball is always disciplined, dedicated, and competitive yet few of their players go on to star in the NBA. The NBA game is different emphasizing athleticism. If talent didn't exist, if it was say simply a matter of coaching, motivation, and discipline, West Point and Annapolis would still be dominating college football, back in the day they got the big time athletes like Roger Staubach, those guys go to USC or Florida now.

The other thing is football like everything changes, both in patterns and trends, the NFL is much more athletic a wide open WR in the NFL is a three yard window, which is "covered" in college. Tebow can't currently consistently make this throw, he can however lead, run many defenders over, and steps up his game throws included, in the clutch. He does seem to have that intangible ability to win in the clutch the great ones do, if he continues to evolve and wins a SB you will see other big running Qb's in copycat just like Antonio Gates opened the door for collegiate hoop players who want to play tight end in the NFL.

I'm not sure if this kid is going to be a great NFL QB, part of that is luck and circumstance, recall Terrell Davis saved John Elway from being half of "the greatest QB who never won a superbowl" debate.

As far as I'm concerned the book on Tebow is he led his high school team to a state championship, he then led his college team to a national championship, and won a Heisman. Then in his first year as an NFL starter he led a 1-4 Broncos team to the playoffs and won a playoff game, before losing to Tom Brady. I don't know how this story turns out, watching this guy play football is like watching a bad Disney movie on repeat, but he is magical in the clutch, he wins and his teammates believe in him, I wouldn't short this guy.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

If you want to develop a serious argument about the role of talent, some of the essays in The Road To Excellence: The Acquisition of Expert Performance in the Arts and Sciences, Sports, and Games (1996) might be of interest to you.

Oh, great, an essay....

I've participated in individual and team sports and can say for a fact based on observation that individuals have varying levels of ability. For some, higher levels of skill comes more easily and naturally than it does to others. This doesn't require the review of studies and methodology. There is a reason it is part of our common knowledge that some people are better at certain things than others.

I can train all I want to with the best tools and coaches and will never run as fast as Jesse Owen. Talent.

Fact, that doesn't require a essay to be a 'serious' discussion or for you to even answer the question posed.....

[afchic]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

If you want to develop a serious argument about the role of talent, some of the essays in The Road To Excellence: The Acquisition of Expert Performance in the Arts and Sciences, Sports, and Games (1996) might be of interest to you.

Or we can just go with snark. There have been very successful professional football players of all sizes and shapes in the history of the NFL. Why have they succeeded while others like Tebow have not? Did they pray harder or did they do a better job at figuring out what they needed to learn and then put in the work to get better?

The answer to the previous question--if not also yours--is the concept of "directed practice" and what is known popularly as the 10,000 hour rule. That is, if one is properly motivated, has expert coaching, and the ability to put in 10,000 hours of directed practice, then one can achieve a very high level of expertise in a domain of knowledge.*

__________________________________________________ ___
* For a discussion of what constitutes "expertise," I found the essays in K. Anders Ericcson and Jacqui Smith, eds, Toward a General Theory of Expertise: Prospects and Limits (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1991) useful. YMMV.

If anyone is being snarky here it is you. You can say all you want that he is not willing to change, but you don't know that. You quote some study and use that as proof to critisize him. Have you ever attended one of his workouts? Have you ever been to a Broncos practice? I would think someone of your pedigree would acknowledge that some study needs to be done to come to an accurate conclusion. You can quote line and phrase on any paper, essay, or book you like. It is a poor substitute for facts, of which you seem to have little about Tebow. Even the die hard Tebow hater analysts will say he improved over the last year. A year by the way with a lockout in which he got no preseason training. Even the harshet of critics acknowledge that if he had the preseason to work on technique he would have probably seen a greater improvement over thst he already exhibited.