Marines Pose with SS Flag

[CloseDanger]

"Not for any sinister or anti-Semitic calculation, but for the simple reason the acronym/letters SS fit nicely in identifying a Scout Sniper and generally because of a professional respect for the German military’s martial capabilities on the battlefield and not the politics of the Nazi fascist regime."

No one ever protested KIZZ. Paging Gene Simmons

[Richard]

Originally Posted by CloseDanger

This is a waste of time.

"Not for any sinister or anti-Semitic calculation, but for the simple reason the acronym/letters SS fit nicely in identifying a Scout Sniper and generally because of a professional respect for the German military’s martial capabilities on the battlefield and not the politics of the Nazi fascist regime."

No one ever protested KIZZ. Paging Gene Simmons

Now that is an astounding lack of SA and historical perspective.

And so it goes...

Richard

[CombatMuffin]

"Not for any sinister or anti-Semitic calculation, but for the simple reason the acronym/letters SS fit nicely in identifying a Scout Sniper and generally because of a professional respect for the German military’s martial capabilities on the battlefield and not the politics of the Nazi fascist regime."

I disagree with this quote completely.

Even if those Marines were trying to show respect for German military prowess during that specific time period, I would assume the Germans wouldn't take it kindly if those Marines waved that symbol while stationed in Germany in the present. Respect can be shown in many other, far more appropriate ways.

[kgoerz]

Maybe they thought it stood for SUPER STAR! Sad to say. But I would guess most in the pic have no idea about WWII history

[bubblehead]

This is on par with those idiots who decided to piss on the corpses of the enemy, and to FILM IT

Poor disply of tact, professionalism, and SA in both cases.

[mojaveman]

martial capabilities on the battlefield and not the politics of the Nazi fascist regime.

The SS administrated the entire Nazi fascist regime.

The Waffen SS? Ever heard of a place called Malmedy?

[HOLLiS]

Most of these Marines probably only have a high school education, they are not very old and also while the runes are the same as the nazi SS, the flag is similar and not the same.

Runes (s) also looks like lightning bolts. The nazi was into anything that embellished their presentation. If anything it is not the smartest thing to do. More concerning is all the spin masters playing this for all they can get out of it. Just like the Marines pissing on the dead T-ban. Gunny should have taken care of it in house. A few days sand bagging or burning S-ters.

We live in such a distant society that we have the luxury to blow small issues way out of proportion. The most effective weapon the tangos have and it comes with all sorts of unwilling and willing allies is propaganda. Let's make a mountain out of a mole hill!

The saving grace of other wars was, we did not have the internet, we did not have all the electronic toys, and communication was slow.

I am more for supporting our people than chastising them. They job is crappy as it is. So they make mistakes?

The other difference in WWII, if the editors of the NYT published stuff then as they do today, my guess would be: Americans would storm their offices, tar an feather the editors and run them out of town on a rail.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by mojaveman

The SS administrated the entire Nazi fascist regime.

No, they did not, although they were an inherently important part of it all.

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

Post #25

Astounding! And I disagree.

We're supposed to be a professional military force representing the ideals of what is considered to be the greatest nation on this planet and its policies - not the overly idealized, misunderstood, and patently misrepresented actions of those of previous cultures. Declaring ourselves to be 'crusaders' or 'SS' or 'rebels' or such only detracts from our assigned mission(s), wastes valuable resources and limited energies, and encourages our enemies...both domestic and foreign...while frustrating our allies and NCA. It's time we grew up; realized the importance of such juvenile actions in hindering our progress in an e-world; and make sure we, our allies, and our enemies understand we will have little tolerance for such behaviors which are not reflective of who we truly are, profess to be, and seek to become.

Perception is reality out there - and it's been that way for quite awhile. This is LIFE...not some effin' video game.

Richard

[kawaishi]

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

The saving grace of other wars was, we did not have the internet, we did not have all the electronic toys, and communication was slow.

I am more for supporting our people than chastising them. They job is crappy as it is. So they make mistakes?

The other difference in WWII, if the editors of the NYT published stuff then as they do today, my guess would be: Americans would storm their offices, tar an feather the editors and run them out of town on a rail.

Nope. There is no "saving grace" in not having journalism. Good reporting has an important role to play in our society and it's not the fault of the reporter when idiots throw puppies off of cliffs or pose with flags that "admire the martial qualities" of the nazi's.

I'm all for chastising any idiot who by his actions shames himself and his uniform. I just think that the major portion of the blame is on the leadership who for many, many years has permitted this in the Scout Snipers.

[akv]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

It does not resemble the SS symbol it IS the SS symbol. Thousands of Americans died fighting those bastards there is zero excuse for this shit.

Absolutely, big boy world, big boy rules, this is the symbol of units which perpetuated racial genocide on an industrial scale and killed millions, not to mention many an American boy, brothers in arms to these Marines. Ignorance is not an excuse, what was going through the heads of senior NCO's and officers?

These Marines are tough men, who do a tough job, yet they might consider spending a day at Auschwitz, go to the rooms next to the hallway where there are thousands of baby shoes piled to the ceiling, lamps made out of human skin, and other examples of the evils humanity is capable of.

The American flag in that picture is truly the flag of hard men, our grandfathers who beat this evil.

[Sigaba]

Source is here.

A STATEMENT ON THE SS FLAG FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS GEN. JAMES F. AMOS

2/10/2012
Headquarters Marine Corps Lt. Col. Joseph M. Plenzler
Headquarters Marine Corps

(703) 614-2326
joseph.m.plenzler@usmc.mil
WASHINGTON —

On February 9, I was made aware of an internet photo depicting Marines posing with a flag containing a Nazi symbol. I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines.

The local command to which the Marines in the photo were assigned investigated this issue last November. They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany. To ensure the Marines involved fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, a formal instructional class was prepared and delivered by unit leadership.

In order to ensure that all Marines are aware of the Marine Corps' position on this issue, I have directed that:

- My commanders investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities.

- The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps immediately detach from his current duties in Washington, DC and personally meet with every senior Staff Non-commissioned Officer and Marine from our sniper and reconnaissance communities to reinforce my message and expectations.

- The commanding general of our training and education command review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of the SS symbol and other inappropriate symbols.

On behalf of the Marine Corps and all Marines, I apologize to all offended by this regrettable incident.

-END-

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

Entire post.

With respect, this post suggests a double standard. Civilians are often excoriated on this BB and others like it for their increasing neglect of the concept of personal responsiblity. Yet, when members of the armed services make the choice to behave in ways inconsistent with the values of the American professions of arms, there are those who say isn't such a big deal.

Nevertheless, this incident is a big deal. Not the least because it demonstrates, yet again, the persistence of enduring myths in America about Nazism despite the diligent efforts of German historians to understand their own past.

Moreover, the following statement is a questionable (i.e. ahistorical) speculation.

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

The other difference in WWII, if the editors of the NYT published stuff then as they do today, my guess would be: Americans would storm their offices, tar an feather the editors and run them out of town on a rail.

As D.M. Giangreco points out in his study of Operation DOWNFALL, numerous broadsheets published articles, editorials, and letters to the editor that raised questions about the armed forces notwithstanding the efforts of the federal government and the armed services to frame public perception of the war.

For better and for worse, the journalism played a significant role in shaping the perception of hard line militarists in Japan of America's will to fight, and the viability of continued armed resistance.*


__________________________________________________ __
* D. M. Giangreco, Hell to Pay: Operation DOWNFALL and the Invasion of Japan, 1945-1947 (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 2009).

[plato]

I believe I have an idea of what a symbol is.

The "Lone Star" flag is a probable statement of pride in the culture now existing in Texas, to one person. Perhaps to another it is a "symbol" of killing indians, to another, it is a "symbol" of stealing Mexican land. Deciding what a symbol means to the person displaying it is an interesting evaluation of our own "baggage".

I have a baseball cap, sorta "Bad-a$$ed Vietnam Vet" type thing, and on it, you'd see a skull and crossbones. That does not mean that I am a pirate, nor that I am a member of the old SS Death's Head division, nor that I admire them.

A symbol means what the folks who display it feel that it means.

I understand the SA part of it. That makes it a bad call if it creates more hardship and death. Hearts and minds, got it, BTDT.

But some of us here seem close to declaring that the Marines displaying the SS symbol are praising the holocast when it's also possible they are saying "so bad-a$$ed you oughta shake in your boots when you see us".

Heck, for four years I wore an academy crest with an ancient Trojan helmet as the centerpiece of the field and I don't even LIKE condoms.

[tom kelly]

Yesterday is History,
Tomorrow is a Mystery,
Today is a gift, That's why its called The Present,
Live and Savor every minute; because

THIS AIN'T NO DRESS REHEARSAL.....TK

[akv]

Originally Posted by Plato

A symbol means what the folks who display it feel that it means.

Perhaps in an alternate universe or if you live in a bubble. The power of symbols and perception in human society is a constant, for better or worse all of us are under constant scrutiny, with ramifications for our words and actions. I'm all for individuality, personal expression etc, but think this through. Consider a guy who flys a NAMBLA flag from his deck because he likes the colors, and wonders why his house keeps getting egged.

This type of logic turns into a slippery slope pretty quick, in theory these Marines could display a flag with UBL's visage on it, after all to some idiots UBL was "a rugged individualist who defied an empire." Better yet consider the coconut walking around Ft. Hood with a " Free Hassan" t-shirt, citing his admiration for religious conviction. Ramifications? The majority of people on this planet see the Nazi's as examples of pure evil, uniformed members of the US military should not be stirring up these perceptions of association with Nazi heraldry regardless of their intent.

[Mauser98]

I live next to MCBH and work on base, and from what I've observed me the snipers here kind of try to be controversial. From guys walking around with tons of tattoos of various tough guy cliches to various of tasteless insignias on their shirts they aren't afraid to SHOW it. But they've earned that right, and it helps their morale. When you actually talk to them they are really nice, and pretty humble.

I'm sorry, but the SS runes show no identification with the actual "martial capabilities" etc of the WWII war machine. The SS were a paramilitary that violated every rule in the book. You respect German snipers of WWII? Cool, there were many honorable units that didn't rampantly slaughter people in mass reprisal. Some of these men exhibited great moral courage in facing down both pressure from their own government and physical courage when facing the enemy. But for crying out loud, you are USMC, if you want cool factor, look no further than your very own marine raiders of WWII and other such similar units. Plus it would match up better with the blood dripping smiley face headshot shirt you are wearing.

So what if they were ignorant because of their lack of education? Situational awareness is important! Little culturally insensitive things like that can eventually get you hurt. But you guys know all about that.

/End rant.