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[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by William Hazen

McCain of course.

William Hazen

A brave man who has served his country honorably, though if that were the only qualification, I would prefer Bob Dole.

You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else, but I could not support a man who would sell-out my Second Amendment rights like McCain has done.

He strikes me as a Democrat wearing a Republican suit on most policy issues.

If McCain-Feingold represents his policy talent, I think I would pass.

Just my .02.

TR

[William Hazen]

Although a Democrat Garrison Kellior about sums up my feelings. I admire men who speak with common sense and the plain truth above all things

William Hazen God Bless America

We’re Not in Lake Wobegon Anymore

By Garrison Keillor


Something has gone seriously haywire with the Republican Party. Once, it was the party of pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and Prohibitionists, the antipapist antiforeigner element. The genial Eisenhower was their man, a genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly) American arts and letters flourished and higher education burgeoned-and there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were giants compared to todays’. Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor.

In the years between Nixon and Newt Gingrich, the party migrated southward down the Twisting Trail of Rhetoric and sneered at the idea of public service and became the Scourge of Liberalism, the Great Crusade Against the Sixties, the Death Star of government, a gang of pirates that diverted and fascinated the media by their sheer chutzpah, such as the misty-eyed flag-waving of Ronald Reagan who, while George McGovern flew bombers in World War II, took a pass and made training films in Long Beach. The Nixon moderate vanished like the passenger pigeon, purged by a legion of angry white men who rose to power on pure punk politics. “Bipartisanship is another form of date rape,” says Grover Norquist, the Sid Vicious of the GOP. “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” The boy has Oedipal problems and government is his daddy.

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.

Rich ironies abound! Lies pop up like toadstools in the forest! Wild swine crowd round the public trough! Outrageous gerrymandering! Pocket lining on a massive scale! Paid lobbyists sit in committee rooms and write legislation to alleviate the suffering of billionaires! Hypocrisies shine like cat turds in the moonlight! O Mark Twain, where art thou at this hour? Arise and behold the Gilded Age reincarnated gaudier than ever, upholding great wealth as the sure sign of Divine Grace.

Here in 2004, George W. Bush is running for reelection on a platform of tragedy-the single greatest failure of national defense in our history, the attacks of 9/11 in which 19 men with box cutters put this nation into a tailspin, a failure the details of which the White House fought to keep secret even as it ran the country into hock up to the hubcaps, thanks to generous tax cuts for the well-fixed, hoping to lead us into a box canyon of debt that will render government impotent, even as we engage in a war against a small country that was undertaken for the president’s personal satisfaction but sold to the American public on the basis of brazen misinformation, a war whose purpose is to distract us from an enormous transfer of wealth taking place in this country, flowing upward, and the deception is working beautifully.

The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few is the death knell of democracy. No republic in the history of humanity has survived this. The election of 2004 will say something about what happens to ours. The omens are not good. Our beloved land has been fogged with fear--fear, the greatest political strategy ever. An ominous silence, distant sirens, a drumbeat of whispered warnings and alarms to keep the public uneasy and silence the opposition. And in a time of vague fear, you can appoint bullet-brained judges, strip the bark off the Constitution, eviscerate federal regulatory agencies, bring public education to a standstill, stupefy the press, lavish gorgeous tax breaks on the rich.

There is a stink drifting through this election year. It isn’t the Florida recount or the Supreme Court decision. No, it’s 9/11 that we keep coming back to. It wasn’t the “end of innocence,” or a turning point in our history, or a cosmic occurrence, it was an event, a lapse of security. And patriotism shouldn’t prevent people from asking hard questions of the man who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time. Whenever I think of those New Yorkers hurrying along Park Place or getting off the No.1 Broadway local, hustling toward their office on the 90th floor, the morning paper under their arms, I think of that non-reader George W. Bush and how he hopes to exploit those people with a little economic uptick, maybe the capture of Osama, cruise to victory in November and proceed to get some serious nation-changing done in his second term.

This year, as in the past, Republicans will portray us Democrats as embittered academics, desiccated Unitarians, whacked-out hippies and communards, people who talk to telephone poles, the party of the Deadheads. They will wave enormous flags and show over and over the footage of firemen in the wreckage of the World Trade Center and bodies being carried out and they will lie about their economic policies with astonishing enthusiasm. The Union is what needs defending this year. Government of Enron and by Halliburton and for the Southern Baptists is not the same as what Lincoln spoke of. This gang of Pithecanthropus Republicanii has humbugged us to death on terrorism and tax cuts for the comfy and school prayer and flag burning and claimed the right to know what books we read and to dump their sewage upstream from the town and clear-cut the forests and gut the IRS and mark up the constitution on behalf of intolerance and promote the corporate takeover of the public airwaves and to hell with anybody who opposes them.

This is a great country, and it wasn’t made so by angry people. We have a sacred duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we’re not getting any younger. Dante said that the hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who in time of crisis remain neutral, so I have spoken my piece, and thank you, dear reader. It’s a beautiful world, rain or shine, and there is more to life than winning.

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by Bravo1-3

Anyone else note that this story was aired on day one of what the Kerry campaign calls "Operation Fortunate Son"?

Even more telling is that 12 hours before the forged documents were made public by CBS Terry McCaullife told reporters that Dubya's record was "sugar coated". Interesting that he use this term as it appeared in the phony documents. I wonder why he picked that exact same phrase, yet they want you to believe that they weren't in the loop. I call BS.

[The Reaper]

I quit listening to Garrison Keillor in the 70s.

I see I haven't missed much in the interim.

Kind of like the Ann Coulter of the 60's hippie left, on a taxpayer funded show.

Socialist Workers of the left, unite!!

TR

[William Hazen]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I quit listening to Garrison Keillor in the 70s.

I see I haven't missed much in the interim.

Kind of like the Ann Coulter of the 60's hippie left, on a taxpayer funded show.

Socialist Workers of the left, unite!!

TR

I see you're one of those new Republicans. LOL :

William Hazen

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by William Hazen

I see you're one of those new Republicans. LOL :

William Hazen

Actually, since you asked, I am more of a strict Constitutionalist/Federalist with strong tendencies towards Libertarianism and States Rights. Since the Libertarian Party is uncompetetive nationally, I tend to vote on certain key issues in national elections, for supporters of strong national defense, tort reform, and firearms rights, and against pacifism, socialism, nambyism, and welfare.

Are you one of those Liberal Republicans I keep hearing about?

TR

[William Hazen]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Actually, since you asked, I am more of a strict Constitutionalist/Federalist with strong tendencies towards Libertarianism and States Rights. Since the Libertarian Party is uncompetetive nationally, I tend to vote on certain key issues in national elections, for supporters of strong national defense, tort reform, and firearms rights, and against pacifism, socialism, nambyism, and welfare.

Are you one of those Liberal Republicans I keep hearing about?

TR

No sir. Independant Since 1988. I became disillusioned with main stream political parties after Iran/Contra and the excesses of the 80's. If Teddy Roosevelt were still alive then I might be a member of the Bull Moose party. As it was I voted for Perot in 1992. I am what you might call a Critical Thinker ( A gift from my Irish Working Class Father).

William Hazen

Actually Sir My first Ancestor in America Edward Hazen came here in the 1640's and we Hazen's have been active citizens since before the the country was born. Starting with great 8x uncle Moses Hazen who formed a Ranger Company under Robert Rogers during the French and Indian War. So my "Independance" streak goes pretty far back.

Originally Posted by William Hazen

I am what you might call a Critical Thinker ( A gift from my Irish Working Class Father).

William Hazen

It's fairly obvious that Garrison Keillor would prefer to have a Republican Party that was less responsive and popular than the current one. A Republican Party that George McGovern (as liberal as any candidate ever until John Kerry) could have beaten. Instead he has the Republican Party that went through a reformation to make itself credible and competitive, a reformation built around a reformed New Deal Democrat named Ronald Reagan.

As for McCain, when a man can't get the support of his fellow POWs, you have to wonder why. I don't believe that John McCain has an understanding of the freedoms addressed in the Constitution as demonstrated by McCain-Feingold. He may be a good Senator. That doesn't mean he'd be a good President.

Originally Posted by William Hazen

???? All of the Major Media Outlets are owned by Conservative Republicans including CBS whose parent company (General Electiric) has givin tremendous amounts of money to Republican candidates.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with how they cover news.

What saddens me is that my own party THE REPUBLICANS have to lie, spin, and rely on fear and personal attacks to win a presidential elecction and we have the worst President in the history of the United States as our candidate.

"Worst President in the history of the United States"?

Support that.

[William Hazen]

Originally Posted by Greenhat

And that has absolutely nothing to do with how they cover news.





"Worst President in the history of the United States"?

Support that.

9/11 happened on his watch

Initially blocked formation of 9/11 Commission & reforms

Homeland Security Act

No WMD

No link between Saddam & Bin Laden

Largest Opium Crop in the history of Afganistan being grown since U.S. liberated the country.

Huge Budget Deficit's

Consumer Debt at record levels

3 billion dollars of foreign capital needed daily to prop up the stock market.

Erosion of the Dollars value against other currencies like the Euro

Lax to no enforcement of existing Trade Agreements

Largest cumalitive trade deficits in U.S. History

Lax to no enforcement of U.S. immigration Laws

Supports Outsourcing of American middle class job's to cheap Foreign Labor Markets

Running political campaign based on fear not substance.

Is the first Republican President to not veto a spending bill since he took office.

Would Kerry do any better? Probably not. Like I said I am an independant voter and to me I am still undecided which one would be the lessor of two evils. The first one to suggest a Marshall type plan for the Middle East may get my attention. The first man to truely speak to the working poor and middle class will get my attention. So far Bush looks let he is going to win and then we are really fucked for the next four years.

In fact my brother Greenhat you could move back from Thailand and try to make a differance. LOL

William Hazen

[William Hazen]

Originally Posted by Greenhat

And that has absolutely nothing to do with how they cover news.

Support that.

In most of the major U.S. Newspapers this last week...

CBS 60 minutes announced this week that they would not be airing a story on the faulty intelligence used to justify President's insistance that the U.S. was under the threat of imminent attack from Saddam Hussian and his WMD's. Sources close to Ed Bradley and 60 minutes indicated that the news organization was under pressure not to air the segment until after the Presidential Elections and coupled with Dan Rather being duped on forged documents they agreed to shelve the story.

That is one example....

William Hazen

[NousDefionsDoc]

Hazen,
You could always write in "Howard Dean".

[William Hazen]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Hazen,
You could always write in "Howard Dean".

Too Liberal...How about Pat Bucannon instead. He and I are on the same page with my list.

William Hazen

Why not Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

Originally Posted by William Hazen

9/11 happened on his watch

Pearl Harbor happened on FDR's

Initially blocked formation of 9/11 Commission & reforms

Blocked lots of stuff far more important than the 9/11 Commission, classified others. Refused to listen to his FBI Director regarding interning American citizens.

Homeland Security Act

Internment of US Citizens. Social Security Act. New Deal.

No WMD

Lend-Lease.

No link between Saddam & Bin Laden

No link between Algeria and Japan. Or Germany and Japan. Or Italy and Japan. Or France and Japan.

Largest Opium Crop in the history of Afganistan being grown since U.S. liberated the country.

Not even close to the size of the opium crop purchased by the United States from China in 1942.

Huge Budget Deficit's

Same. Significantly larger in adjusted dollars than those today.

Consumer Debt at record levels

Rationing.

3 billion dollars of foreign capital needed daily to prop up the stock market.

Stock Market maintained at a depressed level because of actions of FDR

Erosion of the Dollars value against other currencies like the Euro

Elimination of gold and silver standard.

Lax to no enforcement of existing Trade Agreements

same.

Largest cumalitive trade deficits in U.S. History

Largest uncollected debt in US History.

Lax to no enforcement of U.S. immigration Laws

Enforcement without trial. Internment with no representation, no notification, no contact.

Supports Outsourcing of American middle class job's to cheap Foreign Labor Markets

Supported total socialism (and from 1941 - 1945, the US Economy was socialist).

Running political campaign based on fear not substance.

Same (Since you seem to agree with Kerry that terrorism is not a threat, surely Fascism was not a threat in 1940...).

Is the first Republican President to not veto a spending bill since he took office.

Supported multiple bills and programs that were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Would Kerry do any better? Probably not. Like I said I am an independant voter and to me I am still undecided which one would be the lessor of two evils. The first one to suggest a Marshall type plan for the Middle East may get my attention. The first man to truely speak to the working poor and middle class will get my attention. So far Bush looks let he is going to win and then we are really fucked for the next four years.

In fact my brother Greenhat you could move back from Thailand and try to make a differance. LOL

William Hazen

I make a difference here. Compete or die. All the bullshit about outsourcing as if the government has any control of it is just an example of wanting the government to do something about something it cannot realistically have any major effect on (except by tax policy, an area where John Kerry will accelerate outsourcing if not outright moves to overseas basing with the policies he supports). The world is a global market and a global workplace these days. Compete or die.

As for your claim that President Bush is the worst President ever, note the comparisons above. FDR is considered one of the great American Presidents of all time. I can't figure out if you are illustrating you lack of knowledge about US Presidents or your bias in terms of being unable to look at things objectively. One thing though... the charge of "worst President in History" was laid on Abraham Lincoln, FDR and Ronald Reagan during their terms. If that is the company that President Bush is to be viewed with, I think he might be OK with that.

That you would still be entertaining thoughts of voting for a man who met and supported enemies of the United States multiple times, a man who attended a discussion of a plot to assassinate US Senators and didn't report it, a man who shred documents about US POWs in SE Asia, a man who failed to attend 73% of the hearings of the Senate Intelligence Committee, a man who in 1984 opposed the F14, F15, B1, Sparrow, Phoenix, MX, Tomahawk, Patriot and Aegis Cruiser (among others) makes me wonder about your concern for your brothers.

"Working poor and middle class"? Gee, can you sound anymore like a Marxist, Bill? Class warfare is so boring...

[The Reaper]

Ranger Hazen, I am not sure what the source is for your allegations, but I question their varacity.

Have you been getting your info from Michael Moore?

As GH noted, the POTUS did not cause the 9/11 attacks, or the internet bubble which burst on his predecessor's watch and initiated the economic contraction leading to the recession and deficits. Bush did not pass NAFTA, or the Chinese trade deals. Those started well before he was elected too.

In case you missed it, we are at war, and certain things have to be done, politically advantageous or not. We are simultaneously trying to wage a war and recover from a recession.

I believe that the POTUS may have received some bad advice, but that is only knowable in hindsight and I would not fault him for that.

As GH also pointed out, the global economy is competitive, and you either compete, or die. When manufacturing jobs started fleeing the unprofitable union wages in the NE and Rust Belt, they prospered and the right to work states they arrived in did as well. Now, manufacturing wages in even those states are too high for a global market. It is cheaper to make the items overseas. No amount of protectionism (short of government subsidy) will make our products competitive on an open market when they are similar quality and higher priced. That is how the socialists ran their economies to maintain full employment while manufacturing warehouses full of junk nobody wanted, and they failed. The real key is to figure out what we do beter and exploit that niche. The Swiss sell outrageously priced wristwatches, the Germans sell very pricey high autos, and we market expensive low-tech motorcycles. Obviously, we cannot all make Harleys, but we need to move to market our strengths. Fact is that these mill jobs at relatively low wages need to be replaced by something with a better future. The process is painful. My family is an eighth-generation tobacco farm family, and we are witnessing the end of the small American tobacco farm. It is nostalgic and sad to watch, but it is happening for good reason.

If you really believe all of that screed you listed, you need to do what you can to help your preferred candidate, but I would prefer that you did not slander the President of the United States with your vitriolic rhetoric and attacks here.

TR