09-20-2004, 20:35
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#16
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ryndon, NV
Posts: 339
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Excellent move!!
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Agreed. Good tactical move, in asking Shieffer to recuse himself from the debate: if he agrees, he's as good as admitted that CBS is biased, and if he says no, he's going to be on his back foot trying to defend himself, which will end up looking just like ass-covering, and color everything he says during the debate.
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"I have seen much war in my lifetime and I hate it profoundly. But there are things worse than war; and all of them come with defeat." -- Hemingway
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DanUCSB is offline
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09-20-2004, 20:53
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DanUCSB
Agreed. Good tactical move, in asking Shieffer to recuse himself from the debate: if he agrees, he's as good as admitted that CBS is biased, and if he says no, he's going to be on his back foot trying to defend himself, which will end up looking just like ass-covering, and color everything he says during the debate.
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Exactly.
Any show of favoritism towards Kerry, or perceived slight of the POTUS, and the White House can claim CBS bias again.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-20-2004, 21:27
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#18
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Drudge is the heat!
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Yep. I'm sure it's no secret that I repost a lot of it here . . .
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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09-21-2004, 05:33
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#19
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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WSJ wades in...
www.opinionjournal.com
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Modified Limited Hangout
The Rather story looks more and more like a partisan dirty trick.
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:01 a.m.
The big news in yesterday's mea culpa by CBS News isn't that the network was "misled" about "documents whose authenticity is in doubt," as it was finally forced to concede. The story is the admission that the source Dan Rather trusted with CBS's reputation was none other than Bill Burkett, a noted antagonist of President Bush.
Journalists--including us--use all manner of sources, of course, and many of them are partisans of one kind or another. But as much as possible we owe readers an indication of where those sources are coming from. And if those sources turn out to be wrong, as they sometimes are, then our obligation is to own up to the error as soon as possible.
The problem in this case is that before yesterday CBS never gave its viewers even a hint that its entire controversial story hinged on the word of someone who has made it one of his main goals in life to defeat Mr. Bush. Even after the documents on Mr. Bush's National Guard service were called into question, CBS refused to let viewers in on the secret of its source's motives.
This is the real scandal here, and it makes us wonder if Mr. Burkett is the end of this story. It isn't as if Mr. Burkett's motives were hard to discover. On August 25, addressing Mr. Bush in the second person, Mr. Burkett wrote in a Web posting, "I know from your files that we have now reassembled, the fact that you did not fulfill your oath, taken when you were commissioned to 'obey the orders of the officers appointed over you.' "
More intriguing, in an August 21 posting, Mr. Burkett said he had spoken with Max Cleland, the former Georgia Senator and fierce John Kerry advocate, about how to respond to Republican campaign tactics. "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money. He said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with. But none of them have called me back."
This, believe it or not, is the source Mr. Rather described as "unimpeachable." The kindest interpretation is that the famous anchor and CBS were gullible. But perhaps they will forgive their audience for also now suspecting some partisan bias--especially in light of an interview with Mr. Rather that the trade publication Broadcasting & Cable published August 30.
Asked if the media were paying too much attention to the Swift Boat Veterans' criticisms of John Kerry, Mr. Rather replied: "In the end, what difference does it make what one candidate or the other did or didn't do during the Vietnam War? In some ways, that war is as distant as the Napoleonic campaigns." Yet nine days later Mr. Rather was reporting on Mr. Bush's National Guard service as if it were the story of a lifetime.
CBS said yesterday that Mr. Burkett admits giving "a false account of the documents' origins to protect a promise of confidentiality to the actual source." Mr. Burkett and CBS have not revealed that source, but we know he had contact with a Kerry surrogate, Mr. Cleland, who expressed a desire to "counterattack."
We also know that Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe was quick to offer his own theory--that Karl Rove had fabricated the documents. And we know that the day after Mr. Rather's report aired, the Democrats unveiled "Operation Fortunate Son," a campaign video about Mr. Bush's National Guard service that incorporated footage from "60 Minutes."
All of this raises the question of whether CBS was a vessel for, if not a willing participant in, a partisan dirty trick two months before a closely contested Presidential election. Last week Mr. Rather told the Washington Post that "if the documents are not what we were led to believe, I'd like to break that story." It was too late for that; Web writers and other news organizations had beaten him to it. But if CBS wants to restore the credibility it enjoyed back in the era of Edward R. Murrow, it will now get to the bottom of the story behind Mr. Rather's discredited story.
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lrd is offline
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09-21-2004, 10:03
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Boy, this just gets better and better.
Where is the media outrage? 
CBS arranged for meeting with Lockhart
By Kevin Johnson, Dave Moniz and Jim Drinkard, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — CBS arranged for a confidential source to talk with Joe Lockhart, a top aide to John Kerry, after the source provided the network with the now-disputed documents about President Bush's service in the Texas National Guard.
Lockhart, the former press secretary to President Clinton, said a producer talked to him about the 60 Minutes program a few days before it aired on Sept. 8. She gave Lockhart a telephone number and asked him to call Bill Burkett, a former Texas National Guard officer who gave CBS the documents. Lockhart couldn't recall the producer's name. But CBS said Monday night that it would examine the role of producer Mary Mapes in passing the name to Lockhart.
Burkett told USA TODAY that he had agreed to turn over the documents to CBS if the network would arrange a conversation with the Kerry campaign.
The network's effort to place Burkett in contact with a top Democratic official raises ethical questions about CBS' handling of material potentially damaging to the Republican president in the midst of an election. This "poses a real danger to the potential credibility ... of a news organization," said Aly Colón, a news ethicist at The Poynter Institute for Media Studies.
"At Burkett's request, we gave his (telephone) number to the campaign," said Betsy West, senior CBS News vice president.
CBS would not discuss the propriety of the network serving as a conduit between Burkett and the Kerry campaign. "It was not part of any deal" to obtain the documents, West said, declining to elaborate.
But Burkett said Monday that his contact with Lockhart was indeed part of an "understanding" with CBS. Burkett said his interest in contacting the campaign was to offer advice in responding to Republican criticisms about Kerry's Vietnam service. It had nothing to do with the documents, he said.
"My interest was to get the attention of the national (campaign) to defend against the ... attacks," Burkett said, adding that he also talked to former Georgia senator Max Cleland and Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean during the past 45 days. "Neither the Democratic Party or the Kerry campaign had anything to do with the documents," he said.
Lockhart said he phoned Burkett at the number provided by CBS. Lockhart also said that the documents never came up in his conversation with Burkett. Lockhart said the conversation lasted just a few minutes. "It's possible that the producer said they had documents" before his conversation with Burkett, he said.
At the end of the conversation, Lockhart said he thanked Burkett for his interest, and there was no further contact with him. Asked why he called Burkett, Lockhart said he talks to "a lot of people."
"I called you, didn't I?"
The White House said CBS' contact with Lockhart was inappropriate. "The fact that CBS News would coordinate with the most senior levels of Sen. Kerry's campaign to attack the president is a stunning and deeply troubling revelation," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director.
Contributing: Judy Keen
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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The Reaper is offline
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09-21-2004, 16:16
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#21
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Counter accusation time.
What is next, the definition of what the word "is" is?
TR
DNC Headlines
Sep 21, 2004
McAuliffe: Will GOP Answer If They Know Whether Stone, Others Had Involvement With CBS Documents?
Washington, D.C. - In response to false Republican accusations regarding the CBS documents, Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe issued this statement:
“In today’s New York Post, Roger Stone, who became associated with political ‘dirty tricks’ while working for Nixon, refused to deny that he was the source the CBS documents.
“Will Ed Gillespie or the White House admit today what they know about Mr. Stone’s relationship with these forged documents? Will they unequivocally rule out Mr. Stone’s involvement? Or for that matter, others with a known history of dirty tricks, such as Karl Rove or Ralph Reed?”
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-22-2004, 16:21
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#22
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 982
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__________________
De Oppresso Liber
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Doc is offline
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09-22-2004, 17:07
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#23
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,880
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Good one Doc, if Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction, Dan Rather had an orifice malfunction.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-23-2004, 08:07
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#24
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,880
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dollar conversion
Put another way, Janet Jacksons Wardrobe Malfunction has CBS being fined for just over half a million dollars, what do you folks think Dan Rathers Audible Malfunction will cost them in the long run? Thinking about these folks makes me want to go have a Beer Malfunction.
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-23-2004, 08:35
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#25
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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Where are the Calls for Rather's Resignation?
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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09-23-2004, 09:02
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#26
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Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,880
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BMT! Great link, did you see the Safire article (link at bottom) there too?
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Bill Harsey is offline
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09-23-2004, 10:10
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,804
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
Put another way, Janet Jacksons Wardrobe Malfunction has CBS being fined for just over half a million dollars, what do you folks think Dan Rathers Audible Malfunction will cost them in the long run? Thinking about these folks makes me want to go have a Beer Malfunction.
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Sometimes when I am inspecting my beer collection (I keep them in the fridge so they don't spoil), the pull tabs get caught on my fingernail and the can starts leaking. It is a long way to the sink from my fridge, so I have to pour the beer in my mouth to avoid making a mess. Sometimes this happens several times in a row.
I also have noticed that when inspecting my bottle caps for tightness with my Harsey Titanium cap tension gauge, that the caps which are improperly installed to the proper 65 in./lbs. standard will also become dislodged, again forcing me to have to dispose of the contents of the defective beer bottle. I frequently find that as many as 24 bottles in a case are defective in this manner.
I did note that while Chris, Bill, and AM were visiting, that as good guests, they volunteered to help me clean out the defective bottles and cans as well. Occasionally, one would malfunction while they were inspecting it, and they would use my method of disposal to save me from the trouble of cleaning it up.
What excellent friends and guests to help out like that!
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-23-2004, 14:28
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#28
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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I'm guessing dan will not have to resign, he's going to be fired!
From the Drudge Report:
Redstone Vows 'Appropriate' Consequences For CBS News
Stewart Pinkerton, 09.23.04, 2:45 AM ET
HONG KONG - Here's one breaking story that Dan Rather will be watching closely.
Reacting to the document scandal at CBS News, Sumner M. Redstone, chairman and chief executive of Viacom (nyse: VIAb - news - people ), CBS' parent, vowed that the results of a recently announced probe would be "appropriate--and the consequences will be appropriate."
http://www.forbes.com/2004/09/23/cz_...cbs_print.html
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Team Sergeant is offline
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09-23-2004, 17:06
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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Where are the Calls for Rather's Resignation
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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09-23-2004, 17:25
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#30
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 982
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BMT,
I tried finding the link to send an email to CBS to register my discontent but could not find one.
Does anyone have a link to call Dan out?
Doc
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