Male Nurse Fired in Dearborn for Treating Muslim Women

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

The patient, as the consumer and the person who is in a vulnerable situation, has the right to request a doctor in accordance with their cultural and/or religious beliefs.

Having said that -- and unless I am missing something -- I didn't see any report of formal complaints raised by female patients in traditional garb - the complaint was by the supervising nurse, who also is expected to carry out orders written by the treating physician (unless felt to be harmful/erroneous). Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?


It would be interesting to see what would happen if a patient refused to be seen by a muslim physician, or a gay physician, or a black physician (or a gay black muslim physician).... () and the physician wanted recourse due to "descrimination".

Big Teddy

[Guy]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?

Yes it's inappropriate however, because of the AO (Islamic strong-hold) they're working in; no one's going to say much...

Stay safe.

[SF-TX]

Considering the department was closed due to budget cuts, is it an efficient use of personnel and limited taxpayer funds to require all Muslim females to be seen by the Muslim female supervisor? When there were other qualified staff capable of administering flu shots?

If the husbands don't want their wives to be treated by males, then take them to a private medical clinic catering to devout Muslims. But that would cost them more money, would it not? Better to let the kafir foot the bill. Anyway, due to the kafir's self-destructive political correctness, they will bend over backwards to accommodate your misogynistic culture.

...The suit alleges that after he began work in September 2010, a Muslim female nursing supervisor told Benitez to stop treating women she deemed “conservative,” specifically any woman wearing a hijab, the traditional Islamic head scarf worn by many Muslim women in accordance with the faith’s belief in modest dress. Instead, the suit said, Benitez was directed to send such patients to the nursing supervisor for care.

Benitez said he followed this instruction until Nov. 17, 2010, when a health department doctor saw Benitez abstain from treating a Muslim woman and questioned why he wasn’t treating her.

Benitez had transitioned a patient who was receiving a flu shot to the nursing supervisor rather than issue the shot himself.

Benitez explained the directive from the nursing supervisor and the doctor told him the process was “improper” and to treat Muslim women the same as he would patients of any other religion, race, color or ethnicity.

Benitez said he followed the new instructions and within two weeks he was out of a job...

Source

[SF0]

The nurse was supposed to receive training during his education to prevent situations like that. It is part of his job description to be aware of a patient's culture and religion, and adjust his care in order not to conflict with them. Nursing students are also taught that some female patients may not speak out against a male health care provider even though it conflicts with their beliefs. It is the RN's job to be aware of all the facts in order to prevent patient discomfort.

Additionally, unless an MD is paying a nurse as an employee, or the health care facility's COC is specifically structured as such, he is not their boss. This is a common misconception with the general populace. The supervising nurse is. The MD makes diagnoses, assigns medications, and medical treatments for each patient. RNs are not MDs assistants, PAs are.

I think there is more than meets the eye about this story however. If the female patient DID consent to his care, or if it were an emergency situation, then he was in the right. 10,000 howling muslim men can't change that fact.

[dr. mabuse]

Well, in support of our women in white, they can examine my rash anytime.

I'll take Richard's advice this time and wait and see what this "tempest in a teapot" develops into.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Considering the department was closed due to budget cuts, is it an efficient use of personnel and limited taxpayer funds to require all Muslim females to be seen by the Muslim female supervisor? When there were other qualified staff capable of administering flu shots?

If the husbands don't want their wives to be treated by males, then take them to a private medical clinic catering to devout Muslims. But that would cost them more money, would it not? Better to let the kafir foot the bill. Anyway, due to the kafir's self-destructive political correctness, they will bend over backwards to accommodate your misogynistic culture.

I absolutely agree with SF-TX,he's right on target.......... We cater to damn much to these muslims and their BS........ It's got to stop somewhere and why not now........ That BS about that muslim check out woman at Walmart.......
We(our)Country has to find a way to put an end to this shit with them before it's to late and we won't be able to...........

Big Teddy

[SF0]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Sorry man but that is EXACTLY the kind of crap I am talking about. Nurses are supposed to be psychic now? How many cultures do they have to become an expert in? If the pt. does not speak up IT IS NOT THE NURSES FAULT. Personal responsibility is or used to be part of the American way. If they dont like it then move away. If I go to the middle east my culture is to eat pork. Will they feed me pork?

As for the Dr. not being the boss of the nurse well that depends. Let a nurse refuse to give meds or otherwise do what an MD tells them to do and see how fast that nurse gets their lic yanked.

What happed to peoples cajones in this country anyway?

The nurse is supposed to be culturally competent as dictated by the area that they serve. As I said, the nurse received training in what to do in these situations, and received specific instruction from his supervisor that he was following happily up until he decided not to. When interacting with any female patient, I personally always ask them if I have the go ahead prior to touching them, especially if it involves sensitive areas. That includes white catholic women. And I sure as heck do not start grabbing on a woman wearing a hijab that lists their religion in the client record as islamic. I also don't let my left hand touch food that I'm feeding to a middle eastern immigrant regardless of their religion. It's called situational awareness.

The client's well being and comfort are top priorities for an RN. Giving meds and performing medical treatments are only one side of the coin. It is why the profession exists in the first place. It isn't about "cajones", because your own personal beliefs don't factor into the care you give, period. You are forced to care for rapists, and child molesters the same way you are accommodating for the wounded veteran two rooms away. If one can't handle that, they don't become a nurse. Simple as that.

Nurses can and do refuse to give medications. Why do you think they learn Pharmacology? Doctors make mistakes. It is ingrained in new nurses that they are personally responsible for everything that they do or don't do. That includes not doing anything harmful to the patient (Save for DNR orders, which the client or their POA signs off on), despite what the patient's MD says. Additionally MD's DO NOT dictate how RN's do their jobs. That garbage stopped a long, long, time ago.

Lastly, what kind of beating do you think some of these women might receive after letting themselves being touched on by an infidel? Unfair? YES. Should it be happening? NO. Will it happen anyway? YES. Report it if you see signs of abuse, but don't be the damn cause of it.

[Richard]

Our motto as SF Medics:

Primum non nocere

Richard

[PRB]

Were the medical instructions for referal given to the male nurse medical in nature. Were there any medical considerations about ability involved or lack thereof.
Were the instructions based upon a religious/cultural bias.
Should religion/culture be a consideration in health care in a public clinic.

[BOfH]

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

Orthodox Jews have the same religious rules regarding being touched by a non-related member of the opposite sex. I don't hear any outcry about that.

Disclaimer: I am not a rabbi, the following comes from some years of studying this area of Jewish law and personal experience.

Not when medicine is involved. While it may be preferable to have female nurse/doctor and one is usually requested, as far as I know, there is no where in Jewish law which states that medical care is to be denied if a female practitioner is not available. In fact, just the opposite is true, in Jewish law, a persons life trumps all except for three cardinal sins, and if a husband and/or male relative of said woman attempts to prevent necessary medical care from being administered, especially in a life or death situation, he could be considered a rodef(one who is actively attempting to wantonly take a life - all those witnessing are liable to stop him/her, up to and including deadly force). That said, there are individuals and/or groups/sects which take on questionable, if not completely wrong, strictures in this area, sometimes without consulting a competent authority in Jewish law. Without going into culture, upbringing etc., many Orthodox women may just be plain embarrassed in front of another male, and will chalk that up to religion, instead of just stating that she is uncomfortable, religion not withstanding.

On a side note, my wife's OB is a male, doesn't bother her or me for that matter; The fact that he has more experience that his entire practice(I think 6 OB/GYN in total) not withstanding

[Sparty On]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

The patient, as the consumer and the person who is in a vulnerable situation, has the right to request a doctor in accordance with their cultural and/or religious beliefs.

Having said that -- and unless I am missing something -- I didn't see any report of formal complaints raised by female patients in traditional garb - the complaint was by the supervising nurse, who also is expected to carry out orders written by the treating physician (unless felt to be harmful/erroneous). Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a patient refused to be seen by a muslim physician, or a gay physician, or a black physician (or a gay black muslim physician), and the physician wanted recourse due to "descrimination".

Based on the article, my sense is that the supervising/managing RN was forcing her own personally conservative brand of Islam on the male RN & female patients.

Originally Posted by Guy

Yes it's inappropriate however, because of the AO (Islamic strong-hold) they're working in; no one's going to say much...

Stay safe.

Dearborn is in my AO, and I personally wouldn't characterize Dearborn as an "islamic stronghold."

Most of the arabs in Dearborn are maronite Christians or druze that emigrated in the early/mid 20th century to work in the auto industry. Lots of Armenians came over after the genocide and to escape Turkish hegemony -- they're Christian, too. During the Lebanese civil war, even more came over and they brought their muslim friends with them. Lately, the majority of immigrants have been muslim -- Iraqis escaping the war and Yemenis escaping the drought/famine/unrest.

Originally Posted by SF0

The nurse was supposed to receive training during his education to prevent situations like that. It is part of his job description to be aware of a patient's culture and religion, and adjust his care in order not to conflict with them. Nursing students are also taught that some female patients may not speak out against a male health care provider even though it conflicts with their beliefs. It is the RN's job to be aware of all the facts in order to prevent patient discomfort.

Additionally, unless an MD is paying a nurse as an employee, or the health care facility's COC is specifically structured as such, he is not their boss. This is a common misconception with the general populace. The supervising nurse is. The MD makes diagnoses, assigns medications, and medical treatments for each patient. RNs are not MDs assistants, PAs are.

I think there is more than meets the eye about this story however. If the female patient DID consent to his care, or if it were an emergency situation, then he was in the right. 10,000 howling muslim men can't change that fact.

Originally Posted by SF0

The nurse is supposed to be culturally competent as dictated by the area that they serve. As I said, the nurse received training in what to do in these situations, and received specific instruction from his supervisor that he was following happily up until he decided not to. When interacting with any female patient, I personally always ask them if I have the go ahead prior to touching them, especially if it involves sensitive areas. That includes white catholic women. And I sure as heck do not start grabbing on a woman wearing a hijab that lists their religion in the client record as islamic. I also don't let my left hand touch food that I'm feeding to a middle eastern immigrant regardless of their religion. It's called situational awareness.

The client's well being and comfort are top priorities for an RN. Giving meds and performing medical treatments are only one side of the coin. It is why the profession exists in the first place. It isn't about "cajones", because your own personal beliefs don't factor into the care you give, period. You are forced to care for rapists, and child molesters the same way you are accommodating for the wounded veteran two rooms away. If one can't handle that, they don't become a nurse. Simple as that.

Nurses can and do refuse to give medications. Why do you think they learn Pharmacology? Doctors make mistakes. It is ingrained in new nurses that they are personally responsible for everything that they do or don't do. That includes not doing anything harmful to the patient (Save for DNR orders, which the client or their POA signs off on), despite what the patient's MD says. Additionally MD's DO NOT dictate how RN's do their jobs. That garbage stopped a long, long, time ago.

Lastly, what kind of beating do you think some of these women might receive after letting themselves being touched on by an infidel? Unfair? YES. Should it be happening? NO. Will it happen anyway? YES. Report it if you see signs of abuse, but don't be the damn cause of it.

Great posts, SF0. I take it you're an RN?

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by Sparty On

Based on the article, my sense is that the supervising/managing RN was forcing her own personally conservative brand of Islam on the male RN & female patients.

As opposed to the more liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam?

Originally Posted by Sparty On

Dearborn is in my AO, and I personally wouldn't characterize Dearborn as an "islamic stronghold."

Most of the arabs in Dearborn are maronite Christians or druze that emigrated in the early/mid 20th century to work in the auto industry. Lots of Armenians came over after the genocide and to escape Turkish hegemony -- they're Christian, too. During the Lebanese civil war, even more came over and they brought their muslim friends with them. Lately, the majority of immigrants have been muslim -- Iraqis escaping the war and Yemenis escaping the drought/famine/unrest.

If the majority of Arabs in Dearborn are Christian or Druze, you would think the attendees at the annual Arab International Festival would be more tolerant of Christian preachers.

Christian Preacher Harassed and Bullied at 2011 Dearborn Arab Festival

Link

[Sparty On]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

As opposed to the more liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam?

If the majority of Arabs in Dearborn are Christian or Druze, you would think the attendees at the annual Arab International Festival would be more tolerant of Christian preachers.

Good questions.

Yes, there are liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims. I encounter them often.

I am a Christian and have never encountered a situation like the preacher in that video and neither have many of my Christian friends & colleagues. I surmise that having ongoing dialogue with my muslim friends & colleagues goes a long way towards fostering tolerance between the two groups.

That preacher was treated pretty badly, but an anti-islam Christian group showed up at the festival and started a fight. Tolerance goes both ways.

[Mills]

Originally Posted by mark46th

We had better start putting an end to this nonsense. Now.

Agreed. I think we are really going to be in trouble if we continue to let this new "cater to everyone" attitude take over this county.

Sometimes, people just need to be to told to shut up, put on their helmet and get on with life........or move.

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by Sparty On

Yes, there are liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims. I encounter them often.

I wrote 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam', not Muslims. We have heard this worn out apology for Islam before. I know 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful' Muslims, therefore Islam must be liberal, tolerant and peaceful.

Originally Posted by Sparty On

I am a Christian and have never encountered a situation like the preacher in that video and neither have many of my Christian friends & colleagues. I surmise that having ongoing dialogue with my muslim friends & colleagues goes a long way towards fostering tolerance between the two groups.

So, when you have preached the gospel at the supposedly inclusive Arab International Festival in Dearborn you have not received a similar reaction from the crowd?

Originally Posted by Sparty On

That preacher was treated pretty badly, but an anti-islam Christian group showed up at the festival and started a fight. Tolerance goes both ways.

I'm curious about this 'anti-islam Christian' group. Do you have any more information on this incident? If it is like the other incidents, all one has to do to 'start a fight' at the Arab International Festival is stand in one place and preach the gospel. The fight will come to you.