Old West Rifle for Wyoming Elk

[fng13]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all of your help so far. I am still trying to take this all in.

A few points to address concerns that have been brought up this far.

The 200 yard range limit was my own addition to his specifications. as a starting point as I am unsure of what type of ranges he would be looking at. I imagined across valleys etc, but I wasn't sure. I think that would be the outer limits of where he would think about taking a shot with open sights.

I think based on the suggestions here and as I don't know his budget I am going to search for and present him with several options.


He always mentions the Sharps so that is probably his preference but the lever actions also seem like good choices. He wants something original but the idea of him dragging a historic gun through the brush makes me cringe. I would rather present him with both new and old, he can leave the old hanging above the fire place.

Based on the consensus I think I will try and find something in .45-70 as it seems to be readily available in terms of rifles and ammunition.

Thanks again for the help, I am sure I'll be back with more questions.

[mojaveman]

Traditional?

How about a Winchester 1876 Centennial in .45-60?

[HOLLiS]

Originally Posted by fng13

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all of your help so far. I am still trying to take this all in.

A few points to address concerns that have been brought up this far.

The 200 yard range limit was my own addition to his specifications. as a starting point as I am unsure of what type of ranges he would be looking at. I imagined across valleys etc, but I wasn't sure. I think that would be the outer limits of where he would think about taking a shot with open sights.

I think based on the suggestions here and as I don't know his budget I am going to search for and present him with several options.


He always mentions the Sharps so that is probably his preference but the lever actions also seem like good choices. He wants something original but the idea of him dragging a historic gun through the brush makes me cringe. I would rather present him with both new and old, he can leave the old hanging above the fire place.

Based on the consensus I think I will try and find something in .45-70 as it seems to be readily available in terms of rifles and ammunition.

Thanks again for the help, I am sure I'll be back with more questions.

A original Sharps is very expensive, C-sharp or a Shiloh can be had in the $2000 - 3000 range depending on sights (that can be over $600) and furniture.

Other issue is range, very few people can hunt at long range, the longer the range the fewer there are out there. As Reaper pointed our and I think most hunters agree, you want a killing shot, not a wounding shot.

I have two Marlin guide guns, I would use just the iron sights and try to not take a shot over 150 yards, preferably 75 yards. I, also, use Group II loads. The last elk I shot was at 75 yards. Where I live the chances of a long share is rare but possible. We had a bowl where max range was slightly over 800 M. Depending on where I was going, I would either carry my Marlin guide or my Win Mod 70 .338 WM. The Mod 70 were GTG at hitting milk jugs at 600M. I would only take a long shot if I was in that bowl and conditions were 100% favorable. I don't mind passing up a shot, if it is questionable. In Eastern Oregon, shooting a critter is one thing, retrieving it another.

I am a little worse for wear, so I have a quad and trailer set up for hunting. The trailer will haul the quad, the quad can pull the trailer and then I can mount the trailer on front of the quad, tilt the bed and use the wench to pull the gutted elk on it. All without working up a sweat.

The Reaper offers very excellent advice. If he can not consistently hit a paper plate the size of the kill zone of a elk and at the range he will be shooting at, with what ever he chooses, he should not use that firearm. Wait till he has more skill.

Wyoming offers some very open country. Long shots are possible with Creedmore sights, but it takes years of practice to make those shots.

Also to get started, what about deer?


Recommend min. retained muzzle energy to take down a elk is about 2000 ft pounds. A .338 WM has that at 600 M. You can use a ballistic calculator to determine what the energy will be for what he chooses to use.

The elk we have in Oregon, is a very tasty elk.

[fng13]

Hollis,

Thanks again for all the help.

I think though there might be some confusion coming out of my end. My FFIL is not new to shooting or hunting, rather he has tasked me to find him an "old gun" that fits his broad specs.

He has been hunting and shooting his whole life, and would not take a shot at an animal unless he was sure he could hit it.

He also isn't new to BP, he hunts with an old flash pan muzzle loader every year.

He may very well be open to using a scope but I would have to present it to him as such. He said a scope wasn't necessary but I don't think he is dead set against it.

He's a hard one to gauge, a rough and tough SOB that isn't so big on words.

He wants a sharps or similar period but I am not sure he is set on having to take that for elk, he wants something old west or just old. As he is hunting with his brother and his sons who are all into "new guns and $1000 scopes."

He is very much into doing things the "old hard way"


Again thanks for helping me figure something out. If you think its hard to judge what his specs are, you should try being his son in law.

[mark46th]

I have a Browning 1885 Highwall (modern manufacture) in .22-250. I use it as my varmint rifle. I love it. The action is very smooth, the fit and finish is beautiful. Aesthetically, it is my favorite rifle, a classic piece. You can buy tang mounted vernier sights for it if your ffil wants to go that route...

[MVP]

FNG,

Since you keep saying Sharps I'm hearing you (he) wants a Sharps. I would really recommend a C. Sharps 1874 in the Bridgeport variation. The bridgeport has a shotgun buttplate that makes shooting more pleasant. Go with the 30 inch #1 heavy barrel and the buckhorn/blade sights. IME using the tang sight and globe front does not work out in the field. Very few buffalo hunters used them or scopes but it did happen. The tang sights are easily knocked out of adjustment contrarry to the Quigley movie.

I would also recommend ordering the small forend, just look more authentic to the original guns. You can combine features of both version to create a custom gun if you desire. May want to buy Frank Sellers book on the Sharps. Talk nice to John Schoffstall (owner of C. Sharps), explain what you are doing and he can probably get you a gun within 2 months. Again, the overall quality is just as good as Shilohs but with a better barrel.

Buffalo arms sells 45-70 loaded with 405gr lead bullets over BP for a reasonable price, you don't need 500gr bullets for 200yds.

If you ever decide to load your own I strongly recommend buying the SPG Primer for loading BP. I struggled for 7-8 years and could not get my gun to group loading in the same manner as with nitro. The rudiments are the same but significantly different...

FWIW: There was a Marlin model 1881 in 45-70 on gunbroker recently that looked pretty good for its age. The gun had some documentation with it indicating it was used by a guy involved with chasing Geronimo. Believe the price was $2k. May still be for sale.

MVP

[Bill Harsey]

Here is what we use for elk in Oregon.
It goes on the end of a long stick.

[mark46th]

Ahhh- A double barreled Clovis Point....

[fng13]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Here is what we use for elk in Oregon.
It goes on the end of a long stick.

What caliber is that?

[MVP]

FNG,

Send the FFIL to Oregon, he won't need to worry about trajectory or a scope.

MVP

[fng13]

Just a quick update.

Sorry this has taken so long but now he is just my FIL, which is why I haven't been on in a while.

I turned over to him several of the recommendations made here including the C.Sharps, Marlin, Remington etc. showed him examples of each as well as where they could be found.

I left it up to him to choose which he thought best suited his perceived requirements.

Thanks again for all of the help and I will update again with his final decisions and hopefully some pictures.

Fng