Dutch Long Wire

Originally Posted by Green Light

What is a Dutch Long Wire?

It's a Dutchman with a long wire, ha ha. Revome the word "Dutch" and it's just a long wire trying to not over-shoot a target 2000K away. I like the Vee best, or maybe a 1/4 wave length broad side, low take off, wide path.

Always have extra wire and a good supply of insulators. After the antenna is up, (cut to freq. length), regardless of type, and commo seems to be happening, have another team member or two raise a couple of other types. Nothing like having an antenna fail, for no known reason, and you're letting the "stupid, I've got a good idea" bug take over.

When is AIMC coming back?

WD

[glebo]

I'm sure it's just a label, a longwire is a longwire is a long wire, unless it's got a beard and long hair....like the Dutch (well they used to anyway).

Plenty of good info on here, and as most have stated, it's all about the freqs, antenna selection and take-off angle. Since you're doing the 150, is it with MIL STD ALE??? If ya load those up with freq's around the FOT you should be ok.

I would also add, if using any type of ALE, being it SOF ALE (with the 137) or MIL STD with the 150, I would use a non-resonant antenna (terminating it with resistors, not to insult your intelligence, just clarifying), therefore you can operate on several freq's without re-cutting your antenna to make it resonant. Word of note though, as the freq's change on the certain length of wire, the take off angle will also change IAW how many wavelengths of the operating frequency the wire is cut for.

Also.....get that anenna OFF THE FRICKIN GROUND, I've seen the good 'ol IRING, and several others that you just throw on the ground, with the low wattage man-pack radios, your just absorbing energy into the ground, not radiating it in the desired direction. Those were also primarily made for shortrange/NVIS shots anyway. It DOES NOT MATTER if the wire is insulated or not, EM energy travels on the outside of the wire (skin effect)....unlike electricity which travels through.

However, in antenna selection, with only 2k distance, a good 1/2 wave may work if you can get it elevated enough (for low take off angle), and the freq selection is propping, however it's on the fringe of it's range, but it may work. Only thing is, ya can't terminate a half wave, it's gotta be a multi-wave ant, so you would have to cut for each freq if a resonant 1/2 wave....which makes it not user freindly for any type of ALE stuff.

Anyway, my .05 worth....hope it helps

[glebo]

"When is AIMC coming back?"


haaa, prolly when all the satellites melt....then everyone will be wondering.....WTF now PL

[ccruic]

Thanks for all the responses, I'm learning alot more than I expected. This is my current understanding: Freq selection and antenna selection are equally important, however bad freqs will almost certainly eliminate the advantage of a great antenna setup. On the other hand, good freqs may compensate somewhat for a poor antenna. Am I correct in this (basic) understanding?

this could be a great way to introduce our younger and more inexperienced soldiers to building antennas and getting good HF comms.

This is what I'm hoping as well. It will be a great learning experience no matter what.

[Green Light]

Originally Posted by glebo

I'm sure it's just a label, a longwire is a longwire is a long wire, unless it's got a beard and long hair....like the Dutch (well they used to anyway).

That's what I thought. I was wondering if it was something exotic like a 1.667 wavelength antenna with a terminating resistor.

Outside of school, I think I used a long wire once. I used the old 17% (or was it 19) off center a couple of times, but mostly we used dipoles of different descriptions. My TS in Germany was a former commo guy and taught me a couple of REALLY exotic antennas that he and his former senior commo came up with years ago. Hard to get the hang of but once you got it and learned the take off angles for the different freqs, it was really something. I still have the notes somewhere. . .

Originally Posted by ccruic

Thanks for all the responses, I'm learning alot more than I expected. This is my current understanding: Freq selection and antenna selection are equally important, however bad freqs will almost certainly eliminate the advantage of a great antenna setup. On the other hand, good freqs may compensate somewhat for a poor antenna. Am I correct in this (basic) understanding?

This is what I'm hoping as well. It will be a great learning experience no matter what.

I've seen more often then not, the other way. A good antenna will compensate for poor freqs. Even the most Sr. C&E officers and NCO's are limited by NSA guidelines. Some are saying the Sunspot game is coming back in 2012, nothing we've seen since the 1850's.

Nonetheless, keep the antenna high, the ground wave low. Maybe you'll hit your target. Energy waves may bounce every 20-60 miles.

FYI - A few us here belong to the 1/2 Watt club, (fictional) - reaching a HAMM operator while overseas to make a call to our families is kinda cool.

I see alot changing in the coming years.

[bravo22b]

In the FWIW category, the COMMEX that our unit conducted last weekend was successful.

The frequency set that we were given was not great, but there were about 3 freq's that were in the right neighborhood based on the VOACAP propagation model. Only one frequency was successful, all the others were straight zeros across the board. We ended up using MIL STD ALE, and were able to get pretty good LQA scores and send voice traffic.

The commo section BRS used the Harris 1944 dipole antenna kit, and was able to get scores in the 60's. My team set up a field expedient half wave dipole, appx. 5' off the ground, cut to length for the lowest frequency in the ALE channel group. We got comms on the first try and got an LQA score of 57. We then tried setting up a counterpoise, and got worse scores (my guess is that it changed the takeoff angle for the worse). We also set up a long wire, and inverted L, but due to time constraints were not able to test them on the distant station.

I know that most of the teams were also able to establish some type of comms, so I consider it a success considering the experience level of the guys on the teams. The end state (at least for my team) is that my soldiers now have some confidence in the equipment, have exposure to setting up several different field expedient antennas, and have a better understanding of HF theory.

Also, as a side note, the actual distance of the transmission was not 2000 kilometers, more like about 725.

[glebo]

Well, glad you stuck with the 1/2 waves if it was only 725 k's away. Longwire would have over shot, I'm sure.

But, yup, it's all about the freq's. If you have a good proping freq from point a to b, you'll make it on a watt, or 1k watts.

[ccruic]

Definitely a great learning experience. Had a chance to use the half wave dipole (first time) . As bravo22b said, very much a confidence booster. Thanks for all the great info, to those who contributed.