Wake-up Call

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Do you have a trauma kit handy for yourself, your family members, or wounded intruder(s)?

TR

Since the thread was bumped and I read through page one again,
I'd have to say that there is no way in hell I'd touch a wounded intruder. I'd cover them with a weapon until LEO responded or let them run if they could but i would not attempt aid.
They broke in an probably threatened violence if shot, I'm not getting within touching distance of them.

[craigepo]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Since the thread was bumped and I read through page one again,
I'd have to say that there is no way in hell I'd touch a wounded intruder. I'd cover them with a weapon until LEO responded or let them run if they could but i would not attempt aid.
They broke in an probably threatened violence if shot, I'm not getting within touching distance of them.

If they get blood anywhere, then they have to deal with spousal unit alpha, in which case they will be begging for law enforcement to arrive and cart them off to jail.

[Paslode]

I believe the small size (1500-2000sq ft. on average) and configuration of the dwellings in my area limit the options. In my case it's 3 bedroom ranch, front and back entrances are at one end of the house and across from each other.

One positive is that you could cover both entrances easily and remain concealed. And it might while the kids jump out the window to the front lawn.

At present, crime in the area is very low and most burglaries/intrusions happen in the day while folks are away and the perps are tend to be workers for contractors, lawn care, maid services, etc.


I'll ponder it.

I recently attended a seminar sponsored by the FAA on survival. It seems that us private pilots sometimes land away from the airport and survive the crash. It's then that we do dumb things that end up in the death of the pilot and passengers.

The most significant perspective I gained is a consciousness, if not obsessiveness, for the weight of my survival gear. IIRC, I spoke of this in a thread regarding some rain gear that was recommended. I think weight is a useful focus for survival gear whether it is for your flight (pilot) or your flight (escape).

Because I am a CCP instructor, I am also concerned with first responder gear. I currently have much of the gear SWATSURGEON recommended in other threads with me at all times. This gear used to be just tossed in my range bag, however I sometimes make an unplanned stop at the range and may not have my range bag with me. I have been experimenting with a messenger bag which is on me quite a lot of the time and with me always. Please don't laugh too loudly, but part of my inspiration came from watching new episodes of 24 after a 2-3 year hiatus. Some call it my "Jack Bag."

As a challenge to myself, I am trying to integrate what I learned from First Medical Responder School, SWATSURGEON and the FAA survival school. Weight and size are two important criteria. I look forward to this thread providing insights for my journey.

[Longstreet]

!?!

[incarcerated]

Originally Posted by Longstreet

It is bizarre that we are discussing this now.

An acquaintance had a home invasion in an affluent suburb here about three weeks ago. He keeps a Sig handy, and was able to repel all boarders (four of them).
Now he keeps an AR close by.
Great topic.

Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom? I married her 40+ years ago before I understood life, so a new SO is not an option. I'd tell you what I do, but this forum is open to and scanned by search engines and I'm not prepared to show my hand to my SO.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom? I married her 40+ years ago before I understood life, so a new SO is not an option. I'd tell you what I do, but this forum is open to and scanned by search engines and I'm not prepared to show my hand to my SO.

That would have been a deal breaker.

TR

Originally Posted by The Reaper

That would have been a deal breaker.

TR

That was then, this is now.

It is what it is.

[Richard]

Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom?

My wife does not like weapons much but can entertain the thought of how good it would feel to rid the world of someone who has most likely harmed someone else and was now trying to harm her, her loved ones, or her property.

We considered pistols - she knows how to shoot - but settled for the shotgun mainly for the psychological effect and the lessened need to aim when confronting somebody in a hallway, room, etc.

FWIW - the physical and mental response to the action and sound of a round being jacked into the chamber of the pump shotgun seems to help her prepare herself mentally and physically for such an encounter. Works for us.

Richard

[Longstreet]

!?!

[HisDisciple]

Originally Posted by Longstreet

and while I do not have any children (yet) leaving an unlocked loaded firearm in the corner of a room does not sit well with me. It just seems like an accident waiting to happen and is far more likely to accidently hurt/kill a 'good guy' rather than a 'bad guy'.

Why do you posess a defensive tool then(shotgun)?
Nothing will happen with a loaded shotgun unless you touch it.

Back to the break in . . . with the call made, I would approach my stairs and yell down that I know someone is there and that the police have been called.
I would also inform the intruder(s) that I am armed and would procede to cock my shotgun. Hopefully this would scare away the intruder.

There are so many things wrong with this plan.

Giving away your position by voice. You had the upper hand until you said something. Approaching the intruder so that he can hear you. Probability for being shot increases. You are now walking slower and probably trying to see him, so that you may speak. Telling him your armed just gave him a reason too shoot you.
Firearms are not to scare anybody, they are a tool for a specific use. i.e. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Why?
If you view guns as intimidators, you won't have the drive to pull the trigger in the seconds it takes to react before you're shot at.
Your mind will be racing about the consequences and everything else and fail to act. Then it will be too late.

Originally Posted by Longstreet

Should it not work, given the layout of my stairs, if the intruder was to try to walk up them, I could fire a warning in safety and retreat back to my room if the intruder continued. From here I would again lie down perpendicuar to the door with her beside me.
jaYson

You just wasted ammo with that warning shot, giving him time to get cover and think about how he will assault the stairs and murder you.

A better idea is to keep a loaded shotgun in your room.
Know how to find it in the dark. It would be better to have it already chambered so that the intruder dosen't hear the loud chambering "cocking".
Use the element of suprise and you being on the second floor to get the jump on him. A weapon light is gold in situation like this. Don't storm around though with your hand on the pressure switch. A shotgun light is a lighthouse and represents a huge target until you get him in the eyes.

Longstreet, I'm proud that you decided to do the right thing and protect your life and your girlfriend's life by buying a gun. I know in Canada guns are taboo.
I guess it's because of the French influence.

It would be interesting to know if the QPs here have a gun in each room hidden in the event of an emergency.

Some may think I am a bit cautious, but in college I carried around a 3day assualt pack as a backpack with an extra change of clothes, knives, and water bottles just in case a natural disaster/SHTF struck. It didn't hurt and I learned to be prepared.

TR and Richard have great ideas. Having a Medkit is amazing advise. TF Kilo like yours also. I love this thread.

[plato]

Originally Posted by HisDisciple

There are so many things wrong with this plan.

Giving away your position by voice. You had the upper hand until you said something. Approaching the intruder so that he can hear you. Probability for being shot increases. You are now walking slower and probably trying to see him, so that you may speak. Telling him your armed just gave him a reason too shoot you.
Firearms are not to scare anybody, they are a tool for a specific use. i.e. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Why?
If you view guns as intimidators, you won't have the drive to pull the trigger in the seconds it takes to react before you're shot at.
Your mind will be racing about the consequences and everything else and fail to act. Then it will be too late.

I'm inclined to disagree with this disagreement.

I lean in Longstreet's direction here.

Seems that most people have a cell phone. A burglar who hears "the police are on the way" would have every reason to believe it. "I have a shotgun and I'll use it" should deter the "casual" burglar, usually some teenager from the neighborhood (ex-LEO here). And, in those states without a "castle" law, that phrase on the 911 tape may bear a LOT of weight.

Besides, I've had one father-in-law and two sons "sneak" into the house late at night (using keys) when they couldn't go to their own homes for various reasons. I'm not sure I would have recognized them, but "Hey, it's me", in answer to a loud challenge, prevented tragedy.

Any intimidator beats an exchange of gunfire IMHO, especially with my family on the other side of various thin pieces of drywall. And I am inclined to believe that an alert adult voice with an aggressive tone sends a signal that a far easier "victim" might be found elsewhere.

On the "defense of home" side, I am prepared to defend the part of my home that is occupied. My electronic equipment and camera are insured. Venturing forth from my bedroom to do combat in unoccupied areas isn't worth the risk. I am the major source of income here, and my loss would have a far more drastic effect than the absence of my TV. That potential $10,000 or more for a lawyer to defend my actions is a bit of a bite as well.

And, bottom line, I don't WANT to shoot some teen-dufus who wants to steal enough of my stuff to get a new IPOD.

On the barrier side of things, my ranch is divided into three areas by pocket doors, and they aren't the thin internal doors that some use. These are strong and well-seated. Confuses the hell out of people who don't know the layout well. You hit a door, you fumble for the knob, and there is no knob.

Additionally, there are some excellent, cheap home security cameras. I have one that shoots down the hallway that connects all rooms. It connects (by radio signal) to a cheap monitor by my bed. My hall light (or if I wish, every light in the house) comes on when motion is sensed. That causes a loud beep and the cheap b/w monitor screen comes to life. Beats hell out of sticking my head around the corner.

In order to attract attention and make any intruder feel uncomfortable, I also have a wireless perimeter system that broadcasts to a console in my BR closet. That console is wired to one deafening siren under a metal roof vent and one each red, one each blue, strobe light that flash onto my yard. Not only does it alert self and neighbors, but it attracts the curious. And, there's something about flashing blue and red lights that disconcerts intruders.

My little camera also records on a hidden backup computer drive, but that's for after-action. Still, a good clear picture of a burglar is an excellent aid to recovering property.

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Longstreet

As mentioned, I really do not know anything about this and am only stating what I would do given my limited understanding of the situation. I am learning from what is being posted and will change my plan. Thanks for the 'simulation' idea and while she may think I am nuts, I will do it.

Right so the glass breaks . . .

Assuming it is from ground level (I live in a two story house and would find it difficult for someone to break in on the second floor - not that it couldn't), I would turn on the lights and call 911. I would grab my gun (which will now not be locked. Question on this though. Although it is law to have any firearms safely secured - one which I agree with TR that does not work well if I need it ASAP. - and while I do not have any children (yet) leaving an unlocked loaded firearm in the corner of a room does not sit well with me. It just seems like an accident waiting to happen and is far more likely to accidently hurt/kill a 'good guy' rather than a 'bad guy'. Are there any other suggeestion to this or do I simply need to deal with it?

Jayson it's good you're thinking about this, but let me offer a few thoughts; first yes a loaded gun is a hazard of sorts to some people, children being my primary concern. If there are no children living in the house then there is not a huge threat, and it is mitigated by having all adults in the house being shown how to fire and clear the weapon. If you are uncomfortable keeping the weapon fully loaded I would recommend having a snap cap (dummy round) in the chamber and keeping the weapon on safe. That way it is no more dangerous than a bullet laying on the dresser, however it can be made ready very quickly, rack the slide, snap cap is ejected and you're hot and ready to go. This also serves as your warning, yelling IMO is unnecessary, if the person in the house has ill intent they are going to do one of two things, retreat or keep coming, either way you yelling will have no more effect on their decision making process than the racking of a slide, however as others have said they may be able to better determine your location or they hear nervousness in your voice, neither of which is good for you tactically, but this is also situational, in my house there would be no reason for any other human to be inside other than my wife after I've locked up, I have a nieghbor with a key but they know I am armed and well trained and know better than to enter without my permission. If you have family or are concerned that the threat may be the police then a ghost call out may be in order, but IMO that would be best reserved for someone with a little more training and a command voice, but it is a personal decision IMO. Me personally I'm going to rack the slide and that's your warning, the next thing you'll hear is a bang. Understand the racking of a shotgun slide is the 2nd most recognizable sound on earth, second only to a Harley , and it is a universal sound that means go away. Any friendlys in the area are going to sing out their name and status at hearing the slide being racked, and they are likely to stop moving until they make contact with you, but your situation may be different if you have family in the area or multiple neighbors with access to your house.

Originally Posted by Longstreet

Back to the break in . . . with the call made, I would approach my stairs and yell down that I know someone is there and that the police have been called. I would also inform the intruder(s) that I am armed and would procede to cock my shotgun. Hopefully this would scare away the intruder. Should it not work, given the layout of my stairs, if the intruder was to try to walk up them, I could fire a warning in safety and retreat back to my room if the intruder continued.

Ok lots of issues here, if racking the slide didn't scare away the intruder your voice is probably not going to have any effect, they are INTENT on doing you and yours harm and must be dealt with. I would highly discourage warning shots, if you rack the slide and they keep coming a warning shot is simply a wasted round and wasted time, both of which may result in you or your families demise. Another issue, the stairs are a choke point in most cases, if you have only one way up and down that is the best place to make your stand should it come to that, the bad guy has no cover and you hold the high ground while he is in a fatal funnel. If I'm at home and have racked the slide and a bad guy keeps coming, I'm going to end him at the stairs, retreating at this point is simply giving up an advantage for a little meaningless time, if they keep coming up the stairs you need to be ready to keep them from making it to the top.

Originally Posted by Longstreet

From here I would again lie down perpendicuar to the door with her beside me. The baseball bat would be a great idea and I will look into getting one although I do have a hockey stick, heh-heh. Hopefully the police would arrive at this time.

Hope is not a strategy, you have two choices in this scenario IMO, fight or hide and I equate hiding with dying, if you want to block the bedroom door then get a door club, but don't surrender yourself to act as a final door stop, I'd rather go down fighting than to hope the bad guy is a moron.

Originally Posted by Longstreet

I really do not know what I would do for my next step. Using the bat/hockey stick sounds good, but if the intruder is armed with a firearm, it mite not be the best idea. Of course the shotgun could be used, but I have no faith in Canadian law and I would probably go to prison unless I could solidly argue that the intruder was an immediate threat to my gf and I. I really hope it never comes to this.

jaYson

Jayson you sound as if you are only willing to use the shotgun as a warning instrument, I would advise you that if you are unwilling to use it to take a life then you may want to reconsider getting one.

Also when I was a police officer there was a saying many of us used to live by, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Canadian law may suck, and it may not side with you, however if you don't do anything in this scenario you may be dead right along with your loved ones, personally I'd rather neutralize the threat, ensure my family is safe, and deal with the consequences whatever they may be afterwards.

Just a few thoughts

Loaded weapons?

You can keep the keys in the truck as long as you leave the Western Diamond-Back rattle snake living under the seat alone. I caught him sunning one warm Oct day, fed him occasionlly, Nov. - March.

Come April, he was nowhere is sight.