'Green' Technologies - Help or Hindrance?

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by SnwMnkys

LEDs have been used in traffic lights for a while now, long before this whole "green" trend. LEDs are brighter, LED bulbs last for years while the old halogen bulbs only last a few months. Replacing bulbs costs the municipality money for the trucks and people who do the work, it also ties up traffic. Increasing the replacement interval can save a city money. LED bulbs save a lot of energy, they probably consume a 1/5 or less compared to their halogen bulb counterparts.

I'm far from a greenie, but blaming the LEDs causing the problem in this case because they're now labeled as "green" I believe is wrong.

SnwMnkys--

An observation, not a criticism. The first paragraph of your post sounds very much in line with the Brundtland Committee's Report of the World Commission on Environment and Development: Our Common Future (available here). Specifically, the themes addressed in part II, chapter 7, section 6 (available here).

In my limited experience of working with traffic engineers, I am inclined to agree that, as a group, they're most interested in getting the job done efficiently and up to specification. But who writes the policies that drive the specifications? MOO, that's a central question raised by OP.

[spherojon]

even the death star is going green...

[darbs]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

I saw a clip on the "Daily Show" (dont laugh, its no worse than the real news) showing clips of the hypocrites at the global warming summit showing up in individual limousines.
Over 1200 limousines and 140 private jets.
go figure... I hate the planet because I use good light bulbs but these statistic bending, self important, lying cocksuckers show up at a "save the planet" rally in a convoy of limousines?
...meanwhile didnt the gvernement demonize the US Auto executives for flying in corporate jets?

...why is it that only the fucking comedy channel saw fit to bring such hypocrisy onto our TV screens?really?

Excellent rant and I couldn't agree with you more Billy...

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...ar-wedges.html

Telgraph.co.uk
Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges

Excerpt from article...

On a normal day, Majken Friss Jorgensen, managing director of Copenhagen's biggest limousine company, says her firm has twelve vehicles on the road. During the "summit to save the world", which opens here tomorrow, she will have 200.

"We thought they were not going to have many cars, due to it being a climate convention," she says. "But it seems that somebody last week looked at the weather report."

Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."

And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."

The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone, so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports – or to Sweden – to park, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers...

YGTBSM!!!!

[Box]

well...

at least they were able to round up five electric cars. They are gonna use those to visit the free hookers.

And this being Scandinavia, even the prostitutes are doing their bit for the planet. Outraged by a council postcard urging delegates to "be sustainable, don't buy sex," the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass. The term "carbon dating" just took on an entirely new meaning.

[Bill Harsey]

Great news. I have five machine work lights, some integral to the machines, that the new twisty bulbs physically will not fit inside the socket because the bulb is too big for the protective covers.

I'd better start stocking up on minature heaters.

Also the length of life on the twisty bulbs sucks.
They only last a long time if you never turn them off so then about two thirds of the time the bulb is on, you aren't there and don't need the light while the lifespan of the bulb keeps ticking down.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Great news. I have five machine work lights, some integral to the machines, that the new twisty bulbs physically will not fit inside the socket because the bulb is too big for the protective covers.

I'd better start stocking up on minature heaters.

Also the length of life on the twisty bulbs sucks.
They only last a long time if you never turn them off so then about two thirds of the time the bulb is on, you aren't there and don't need the light while the lifespan of the bulb keeps ticking down.

Bill

You need to get with the parade and get rid of that old technology. It probably hasn't needed fix'n in 20 years. Do you know how many people lost their jobs because you persist in using antiques???

The NEW GREEN tools are not long GREEN, but they support jobs. That lady with the accent that answers the 800 number, The tech support in the remote jungles of that far away country, The young engineer that just received a 10,000,000 USD ACORN grant to study the effects of persistent plastic parts fatigue usage, instead of steel and it's carbon waist, The account salesman that drives the 100K SUV and stops by annually to drop off an autographed set of Beer Mugs as a small token of his appreciation, The executive that spends his bonus supporting sustainable issues in the personal massage industry, and on and on and on..

I bet the belt sander with the new red wheels is not GREEN??

[Bill Harsey]

Sorry about not keeping up the right way.

I have made the mistake of thinking that producing stuff that lasts a long time was green and this old fashioned way of working was called the "economy of longevity".
The new green must be better because it uses more earth resources and lets us import millions of tons of stuff produced in another country. It works for a little while, if at all, then is replaced by the next waves of millions of tons of stuff that will also fail.

Have one set of bearings in the main grinder that have been working since 1984. They were not made in another country.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Sorry about not keeping up the right way.

Have one set of bearings in the main grinder that have been working since 1984.

They were not made in another country.

Nuff said.. That's a s green as it gets...

[Nightfall]

Okay, I have to throw my 2 cents into this one...

I find it ironic that duing the 70's fluorescent light bulbs were the bane of all greenies, and now everyone wants you to use them. But don't throw them away - in my town you actually have to take them to the hazerdous waste disposal (HA! like anyone does that) to avoid MORE mercury contamination in the water/ground. One of our local news stations came on to point out the proper way to dispose of one, God forbid you accidentally break one (clear the room for 15 minutes then dispose of anything that comes in contact with them).

And in Maine? -

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ulbs-dangerous

"Get all the people and pets out of the room for 15 minutes and let the room air out. If you have a central heating system or an HVAC [heating, ventilating and air-conditioning] system, you don't want it sucking the fumes around, so shut that down."

http://maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflbreakcleanup.htm

"•When a break happens on carpeting, homeowners may consider removing throw rugs or the area of carpet where the breakage occurred as a precaution, particularly if the rug is in an area frequented by infants, small children or pregnant women."

Save a few cents a month on energy, but endanger your family in thr process.

In the end most greenies are just simply antihuman (not that I can totally knock them for that).

In New Zealand while I was living there, they wanted to put up wind farms - but the greenies didn't want to "destroy" the enviornment by putting up the wind mills so they protested even THAT.

Penn and Teller did a gag at an environmental march protesting Dihydrogen Monoxide (H20), rather funny, but pointed out the level of genius of those involved. Quite a few people signed their petitions...

Even the founder of Green Peace Patrick Moore left for some rather nasty reasons. Now he comes out for PVC/Vinyl, Nuclear Energy and so on.

In as much as I feel like we have a detrimental effect on the enviornment, I feel that the current movement is a fad and money grabbing opportunity, and for the most part run by jackholes who only half know what they are talking about. Heck some of the simplest things could resolve a lot of our problems (painting roofs white for example). Bio-deisel drives up corn costs, which drive up food costs, the cost of a "green" vehicle would take you almost 20 years to break even on the savings, I could go on, but most of the stuff being crammed down our throats is sort of making me a sickly shade of green. Again, I appreciate the need for alternatives, but it seems to me we are just making things worse at this point. Take a breath (unless you broke a bulb), step back, come up with better solutions, then act.

Sorry, was just my quick little rant...

[orion5]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

The new green must be better because it uses more earth resources and lets us import millions of tons of stuff produced in another country. It works for a little while, if at all, then is replaced by the next waves of millions of tons of stuff that will also fail.

Brilliant! Is that what you think about while grinding?