5 D.C. Muslims Detained in Pakistan

Originally Posted by Ret10Echo

CAIR Lawyer was on Newshour tonight discussing the "5"


afchic: ,<---I asked that AM
The parents became concerned, went to CAIR (and why shouldn't they that is they are the authorities right?).

They are the 'new authority'? CAIR? What must happen before this group is disbanded by force via the Justice Dept?

How did the US Authorities find out?
AM

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Might work in the academic environment, but not in the real world.

<<SNIP>>

My take is that we need to look at ways to simplify engagements, surveillance, arrests, etc...not complicate them even more....

Interestingly, my thought was the opposite: my idea would be easier to implement in the private sector than in the Ivory Tower.

My experience with the latter is that the "I have tenure / academic freedom" mentality will see professors doing as they please. By contrast, the private sector isn't necessarily less obdurate but it is all about risk management, policy compliance, and the bottom line.

If some asshat wants to push the limits on air travel, he can swear up a storm but meanwhile, the nitwit and his luggage are getting off the plane because people have better things to do.

Moreover, the campaign against militancy I envision would establish pretty clear guidelines. Yes, getting to those guidelines would be a thorny path. But maybe no more so than the debates we're having already about a number of issues.

And by clearly defining militancy, wet-blanket/skeptical/PITAs like me would have little else to say than "Hey, the rules were fairly defined and equally applied. You guys broke the rules. You brought this on yourselves."

YMMV.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

...And by clearly defining militancy, wet-blanket/skeptical/PITAs like me would have little else to say than "Hey, the rules were fairly defined and equally applied. You guys broke the rules. You brought this on yourselves."

YMMV.

I am just curious who would make those clear and concise definitions you speak of: our Congress, the AG, BHO himself? I would argue that the chances of getting any of the above to do so would so would be about the same as them punishing those that "step" over the proverbial line as they should be.

Hell we cant even get a damn Islamic terrorist kicked out of the US Army for God's sake...



Crip

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

I heard on Fox News, that thier parents turned them in? Or was it they just reported them missin? Isn't what they did treason?

Apparently the father of one of the students is (allegedly) the facilitator of their being in Pakistan. Expanded reporting is indicating some (or all) attempted to be recruited online, and failing that, made a personal visit.

Farooq's father, Khalid Farooq, also was detained. Anwar said the elder Farooq owns a computer business in Virginia and shuttles between the U.S. and Pakistan. Authorities said he owns one of the homes raided by police and investigators are still trying to establish what role — if any — he played in the men's alleged activities.

The other location was a home owned by an uncle of one of the suspects who has ties to militant groups, according to S.M. Imran Gardezi, the press minister at the Pakistani Embassy in Washington.

Source is here

Apologies Armymom for the incorrect attribution...

How did the US Authorities find out?

CAIR lawyers directed the families to contact the FBI.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

I am just curious who would make those clear and concise definitions you speak of: our Congress, the AG, BHO himself? I would argue that the chances of getting any of the above to do so would so would be about the same as them punishing those that "step" over the proverbial line as they should be.

Hell we cant even get a damn Islamic terrorist kicked out of the US Army for God's sake...

Crip

Surgicalcric--

Metaphorically, militancy is a hydra. While Islamic jihadism is among the most venomous and active heads on that beast, there are others.

My notion is to create the conditions under which Americans of all stripes, beliefs, and political persuasions can focus on the body. A similar formulation is using "totalitarianism" to describe governments across the spectrum: fascist, communist, oppressive theocracies, narco-terrorist states, military juntas, and so forth.

I understand that this idea is embryonic and problematic. I envision a time table of at least ten years during which intense political and intellectual debates would rage. A consensus would need to be reached and endure across a couple of exchanges of political power in the Oval Office. But such a debate would not be new to the American experience. The road to women's suffrage was not an easy one.

(Even if America decided not to travel this path, the debate itself would be worth while. It would remind all of what some have forgotten--we're a nation governed by rules and guided by values.)

Our fellow citizens on the left side of the aisle have laid some of the intellectual and political groundwork already with their selective definition of hate crimes. Were we to turn some of their rhetoric on its head, they would have a good opportunity at them selves and to prove that they wanted to walk the talk they've been talking. (Why is it okay to rationalize the burning vehicles at a Hummer dealership and sabotaging of research facilities but they hit panic button when Americans "tea parties"?)

Originally Posted by Ret10Echo

Apologies Armymom for the incorrect attribution...

no problem, just wanted to tease you for having a senior moment there.

CAIR lawyers directed the families to contact the FBI.

Gee, what caused CAIR get a sudden attack of patriotism?

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

Gee, what caused CAIR get a sudden attack of patriotism?

Sarcasm noted...

But realistically I do not know what the timing was on CAIR's "guidance". or perhaps they (CAIR) knew about the arrests in Pakistan before the U.S.?

There are many remorseful thieves immediately after they are caught.

I am going to take a look, but does anyone know of the timeline??? The way the story has been portrayed the events unfolded very rapidly, but that may not be the case.

Added: Photo

Friday, Dec. 11, 2009, arrested American Muslims, from left, Waqir Hussain Khan, Ramys Zamzam, Umar Farooq, Ahmad Abdulminni, Aman Hasan

[LongWire]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

Gee, what caused CAIR get a sudden attack of patriotism?

They were set up in an attempt for CAIR to curry favor with DHS.

[Richard]

From Dawn - the most widely circulated English language newspaper in Pakistan.

Richard

In August, police arrested a group of foreigners, including a Swede who had spent time in Guantanamo Bay prison camp, close to the Afghan border region and publicly accused them of al-Qaeda links. They were held for over a month before being released and put on a plane out of the country.

Lip service. They toss them out, and they come right back via another route.
Whatever country this is, the police should let them languish in jail and then try them for something that will put them out of commision permanently. It is almost as if it is a game. On one hand these countries are saying they don't support terrorists, but the other hand is busy unlocking the jail cell and telling them. "now be good little jihadist and don't get yourself caught again."

The case has fanned fears that Americans and other Westerns – especially those of Pakistani descent – are traveling to Pakistan to join up with al-Qaeda and other militant groups. It comes on the heels of charges against a Chicago man of Pakistani origin who is accused of surveying targets for the 2008 terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India.

While I agree with this on the surface. We also have to remember what we, as a nation, did to the Americans of Japanese descent post Pearl Harbor. Not all Americans of Middle Eastern Descent want to get involved with Jihad. Some, I am sure, harbor secret thoughts, others just want to live thier lives in freedom.

They( the muslim 5) were set up in an attempt for CAIR to curry favor with DHS.

That sounds like a fair scenario. However, having dealt with rank and file DHS personel on several occasions. I fear that much subtlety will be lost on DHS.
CAIR seems to be more and more arrogant the further into this latest administration we go. One has to wonder why they feel they can get away with this. One fatal mistake they may be making is underestimating the American people as a whole.

[Ret10Echo]

Update from the BBC

US suspects to stay in Pakistan
A court in Pakistan has ruled that five Americans detained for suspected militant links cannot be deported while judges review their case.

The high court in Lahore said it wanted more information about the case before such an order could be made.

The men were held last week in Punjab province and are wanted in connection with a possible plot in the US.

They have yet to be charged or appear in court and the US is not thought to have yet requested their deportation.

The men were arrested in the town of Sargodha last week.

Police said they had been in direct contact with various militant groups in Pakistan since August and had offered their services for attacks.

FBI officials said they were the same men who disappeared from their homes in the US state of Virginia last month.

Their families reported them missing after finding a farewell video message, showing scenes of war and calling for Muslims to be defended.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ia/8412119.stm

Published: 2009/12/14 13:24:44 GMT

ASIA NEWS DECEMBER 14, 2009, 4:22 A.M. ET Pakistan Court Rules Detained Americans Can't Be Deported

Associated Press
LAHORE, Pakistan -- A top Pakistani court on Monday ruled that five Americans being held on suspicion of terror links can't be deported back to the U.S. or any other country before judges review the case, an official said.

Pakistani police have alleged that the five young Muslim men wanted to join militants in Pakistan's northwest tribal areas before going to Afghanistan. The men are accused of using Facebook and YouTube sites to try to connect with extremist groups in Pakistan.

They have not been formally charged with any crime in Pakistan or produced in court. No deportation order is known to have been issued, though officials from the U.S. and Pakistan have said deportation back to America is likely.

Lahore High Court registrar Tahir Pervez said the court wants more information before such a move is allowed.

The court made the move in response to a petition from Khalid Khawaja, a civil rights activist who has often filed court cases on behalf of alleged militants and people believed to have disappeared at the hands of Pakistan's vast security apparatus.

Mr. Pervez said the court ordered the government of Punjab province to file a report on the case in a hearing Thursday.

The men were picked up by Pakistani authorities last week in the Punjab town of Sargodha after their worried families in the U.S. turned to the FBI to track them down. They were shifted over the weekend to Lahore, the provincial capital, for further questioning.

The five men are from the Washington, D.C. area, and the case has fanned fears that Americans and other Westerners, especially those of Pakistani descent, are traveling to Pakistan to join up with al Qaeda and other militant groups.

FBI agents, who have been granted some access to the men, are trying to see if there is enough evidence to charge any of them with conspiracy to provide material support to a terrorist group, an American official and another person familiar with the case said Friday.

They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the investigation.

[Ret10Echo]

Update...

Pakistan lays out terror charges for 5 Americans
March 2, 2010 - 6:21am

By NABIL YOUSAF
Associated Press Writer

SARGODHA, Pakistan (AP) - Prosecutors seeking to indict five Americans on terror-related offenses presented their case to a Pakistani judge Tuesday, laying out charges including waging war against Pakistan and plotting to attack the country, a defense attorney said.

The men, all young Muslims from the Washington, D.C., area, were arrested in December in Punjab province not long after reaching Pakistan. They had been reported missing by their families in November after one left behind a farewell video showing scenes of war and casualties and saying Muslims must be defended.

The men could be indicted on as many as seven charges during their next hearing on March 10, lawyer Hamid Malik told The Associated Press. The judge ordered the defense to review the prosecution report presented in the Sargodha town court and to prepare a rebuttal.

The punishments the men face if convicted could be as severe as life imprisonment.

Pakistani police have publicly made several accusations against the young men, claiming the suspects contacted Pakistani-based jihadi groups. But their lawyers say they were heading to Afghanistan and had no plans to stage attacks inside Pakistan.

During past court hearings, the men have claimed they were tortured by Pakistani police and FBI agents. Pakistan and the U.S. have denied those allegations.

The U.S. has pressed an often-reluctant Pakistan to crack down on militants on its territory, many of whom are believed involved in attacks on American and NATO forces across the border in Afghanistan. At the same time, several recent cases have highlighted incidences of Americans signing up to join the insurgents on both sides of the border.