NOTE: To all individuals contemplating an 18X contract - AD or ARNG

[Scimitar]

I just talked to a recruiter who said the Off-Peak and Quick-ship bonuses have gone away. Can anyone else confirm? I'm going to MEPS in the next few weeks and wanted to be armed with correct information.

My understanding is that Active Duty may have dropped these where as NG hasn't yet. Scuttlebutt aside, the only reason I can think of as to why he would not be telling you the truth is he doesn't want you to be basing your timeframe decision around these bonuses.

Remember his agenda is to get you in and generally you get you in as quickly as possible.

The best way to check is to make a quick call to an SF recruiter in a different State near you and simply advise that you are planning on enlisting 18 series and wanted to discuss timeframes and could he advise you on the availability of the Quick-ship and Off-Peak bonuses and see what he says, don't say you're working with another recruiter.

PM me for POC near you.

On another note is he may have misunderstood your question, Seasonal is down until at least new recruiting year. 1 Oct. The same may be with the Quick-ship. Read my above about USARECs style of quota management, you may find things will open up in the new recruiting year.

BTW, don't geek out on this stuff, this was an FYI post, it really is bottom of your priority list.

Financial: He said, doing it the split way, you get "Mobilized For Training" orders when you go to selection and Q course - which means significantly more pay and off-barrack housing. He said he is kicking himself in the butt for not doing this. I just wanted to know if others had heard the same and does it make sense to ask for this?

I just talked to a buddy Q-side and he confirmed that NG guys get great housing, not sure about the extra money and not sure weather this also applies to NG 18X contracts?

SOPC: His advice was to avoid SOPC if at all possible. He said he was already in shape on his own, but SOPC was a non-stop smoke session for undisciplined people who couldn't work out on their own and didn't help him get in shape for SFAS but rather broke his body down. As an older guy like myself, he said he would have been able to train for selection much more efficiently on his own and allow himself time to recover from injuries.

If you don't do SOPC then you will almost be guaranteed to do the guards 3 months version, where you drill in a specific prep unit every month until they sign off on you to go. Either way you going to do some sort of prep stuff.

Weather SOPC is better or worse then doing Guard Prep, I wouldn't know, not a BTDT. Others can make more informed comments. I have been advised multiple times that SOPC is excellent and they provide a lot of rest and nutrition in line of the goal to build you up.

Take into account that you may not be able to be employed during that break between Basic and Selection. Many guys prefer the NG 18X style contract over the NG split program simply due to their inability to stay employed during that break, depends on your job I guess.

I already asked my recruiter, and he says he doesn't know anything about off-barrack housing or extra pay for MFT orders.

As far as I know, all of the 15 SF NG states either run a pure 18X contract or the split program. From what I know WV runs the 18X program therefore will know nothing about the benefit differences in the split program. Best option might be to contact Recruiter SFC Logan Gregory at the 19th HQ in UT on 801 859 2000 and see if he knows; very informed guy. Please report back on your findings.

He also says I can't split up my enlistment if I go 11B, because the 19th in West Virginia doesn't support that MOS. According to my recruiter, I would have to choose an MOS supported by the company, which I might consider, but I really have my heart set on going to infantry school at Ft Benning.

- "He also says I can't split up my enlistment if I go 11B". As above, I think you'll find you can't split a NG 18 series contract with WV at all.
- You'll have to choose an MOS in line with the MOS you want in your 18 Series contract. (i.e. 68W Combat Medic = 18D SF Medic etc etc)
- If you want to go 18B SF Weapons then I think WV has a Cav Scout unit and you would go to Cav Scout OSUT, apparently the Basics are similar; can't provide informed comment on this.
- OH, offers an 18X contract with an 11B option, call their recruiter (PM me for details). Not living in the State you enlist in is not a big deal since you only have to drill once a month and you can sometimes increase that to every 2 or 3 months. I have been advised that a significant portion of NG SF guys don't live in the State they enlist in and travel to drill.

And regarding avoiding OSUT if it's not effective

I think you mean SOPC

HTH


Scimitar

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by amatlis

...As a separate question, a buddy of mine who went national guard rep-63 and is just now in the Q course *strongly* advised I set up my contract to come home after AIT for a few months to train before going to selection. He mentioned two reasons:

He is talking about being put on COADOS orders for training. The benefit to this is that you will draw perdiem while in the SFQC and you will have the benefit of off-post housing.

You have other things you need to be concerned with, especially as a REP-63!

SOPC: His advice was to avoid SOPC if at all possible. He said he was already in shape on his own, but SOPC was a non-stop smoke session for undisciplined people who couldn't work out on their own and didn't help him get in shape for SFAS but rather broke his body down. As an older guy like myself, he said he would have been able to train for selection much more efficiently on his own and allow himself time to recover from injuries.

SOPC is supposed to be a bit of a smoke fest...

...And regarding avoiding OSUT if it's not effective, I train almost every day in MMA, and we constantly look for the most effective way to train rather than just the hardest because you will become a better fighter if you can continue training every day rather than needing to take time off for injuries, which has happened to me in the past when I trained stupidly...

Are you talking about OSUT or SOPC? What are you gauging its effectiveness against? I guarantee you there are more 18X/REP-63's who get selected because of SOPC than would do so without it.

As for being injured, SF is SF and injuries are going to happen. It isnt a matter of if, but when. Read everything you can here and listen to the guys who have done what you want to do...

[Swank]

In my day, the Q-course was uphill, both ways. It was always over a hundred degrees in the daytime and it snowed three feet at night.

Don't let anybody make you feel bad or less of a candidate for getting everything in your contract that you can. Not doing so shows a lack of resourcefullness.

One small math note, if you delay five weeks for five grand that is taxable, how much are you actually earning? Wouldn't you make close to 5k in the five weeks with your army paycheck, some of which is not taxable?

[amatlis]

Scimitar: Thank you for the detailed response. Maybe the recruiter did misunderstand me about "seasonal". I'll check with other recruiters and report back to the board. I think you are correct about the West Virginia setup. I believe Maryland has a split program with 11B. Maryland is actually closer to me, but the training team NCO for West Virginia has been mentoring me and allowing me to participate in drills, so I feel committed to WV. The split program wouldn't be a problem for my employer since I work for a defense contracting firm which is very supportive of the military. I'm asking about the off-peak bonus, because I'm planning to ship in the Fall anyway, so it would be silly to miss out on a bonus by a few days. And, yes, I meant SOPC. Thank you!

Surgicalcric: I am only asking about SOPC and COADOS (if that's what it's called), because my buddy, who was just selected and now in the Q course, strongly recommended I avoid SOPC and go with the split-enlistment. I generally trust his advice (as much as you can trust someone with a PhD in Physics...), but, as you suggested, I thought the whole point of SOPC was to get you ready for selection, so I came here for second opinions. As for off-post housing and drawing a per-diem, I'm not sure what you meant by "You have other things you need to be concerned with, especially as a REP-63." Right now I need to choose and sign a contract, so that's what I'm trying to figure out right now. All things being equal, I'd rather have off-post housing and a per-diem if it's a free choice. If it doesn't make sense, I'll forget about it. Once the contract is signed, I will move on to the next target. Thank you for the recommendation on SOPC. I was just surprised by my friend's adamant insistence that SOPC was a waste of time. My friend has always been in excellent physical shape, so I was surprised that he found it counter-productive.

Swank: Thank you for the supportive comment. You have an interesting point about the math of delaying and losing army income just to gain $5k bonus, but you're assuming I don't currently have a job. How do you know I don't currently make significantly more than $5k/mo?

Thanks all!

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by Swank

One small math note, if you delay five weeks for five grand that is taxable, how much are you actually earning? Wouldn't you make close to 5k in the five weeks with your army paycheck, some of which is not taxable?

Good point,

I should mention that my maths only works if an individual is already earning.

S

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by amatlis

...My friend has always been in excellent physical shape, so I was surprised that he found it counter-productive...

Does your friend have a long tab yet? If not what more do you need to know? Do you or he or we know better how to prepare a soldier better for SFAS? You need to read 'Get Selected For SFAS.' If you have read it, read it again!

Crip

[amatlis]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Does your friend have a long tab yet? If not what more do you need to know? Do you or he or we know better how to prepare a soldier better for SFAS? You need to read 'Get Selected For SFAS.' If you have read it, read it again!

Crip

No, neither of us have tabs. That's why I'm here respectfully asking questions. If you have experience with SOPC or are involved in running it, I greatly appreciate your insight. I have two options: direct or split-enlistment, so I'm trying to make an informed decision.

Thanks!

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by amatlis

No, neither of us have tabs. That's why I'm here respectfully asking questions. If you have experience with SOPC or are involved in running it, I greatly appreciate your insight. I have two options: direct or split-enlistment, so I'm trying to make an informed decision.

Thanks!

Amatlis,

Just an observation...

It seems SurgicalCric is partial to SOPC; I have heard only good things about SOPC; your friend didn't like SOPC. (BTW I think they changed its name?). I suspect like a lot of things you are only going to get mixed reviews here. Horses and Courses.

This was my take on the same decision...both prep programs do exactly that...prepare you; are run mainly by tab'd guys who give a damn about your success and the quality of recruit coming thru. I suspect either will do the job just fine.

Where I feel the real variable lays is weather there is any signifcant difference in living conditions and pay (or anything else) between the 'straight' 18X NG contract and the split contract. (not that I intend to imply that the split contract is gay or anything )

You're normally in the Q anywhere from to 15 - 24 months, if there's a significant pay / benefits increase for split guys then that might be an important enough variable to base the 'which State to enlist in' decision on...

Regardless of all that you mentioned you had an emotional tied to WV and I'm pretty sure they can only offer the Pure contract....

Just some thoughts brother, I'm in the same boat as you and would appreciate any and all G2 you uncover on this topic.


Scimitar

P.S.
Damn life was simple when all I had infront of me was an 18X AD contract and a pen...damn you knees!!

Knowledge can be a real bitch sometimes, just ask Adam & Eve.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

...Damn life was simple when all I had infront of me was an 18X AD contract and a pen...

25 meter target tends to get a bit out of focus when you start looking at the 250 meter target doesnt it...

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by amatlis

No, neither of us have tabs...

Maybe you should focus on the tried and true...

[Books]

Amatlis,

If there is a way to lose money with enlistments, etc, I've managed to do it. Swank, on the other hand, is a magnet for Army money.

I can assure you this: if you're a money motivated guy (ie: more motivated by the cash than you are by the company you keep and the job you do), you will bounce after your first enlistment and find a way to bathe in tubs of contractor money. You might become a Nasty guard bum.

About SOPC. It changes constantly. What your esteemed friend went through may not exist anymore. Who cares. Riddle me this: is it possible that it's there to not just train you but to punish you?

For a short time while when I was at the course, SWC experimented with sending SOPC kids to SFCDC during breaks in their SFQC training; about 6 went and all but one made it. One described scuba school as "Aquatic SOPC." Crip is from that era of SOPC. Please don't think me joking when I tell you that the SOPC mafia is alive and well and that the people who endured the exprience have yet another layer bonding them.

Stay safe,

Books

[amatlis]

Originally Posted by Books

About SOPC. It changes constantly. What your esteemed friend went through may not exist anymore. Who cares. Riddle me this: is it possible that it's there to not just train you but to punish you?

For a short time while when I was at the course, SWC experimented with sending SOPC kids to SFCDC during breaks in their SFQC training; about 6 went and all but one made it. One described scuba school as "Aquatic SOPC." Crip is from that era of SOPC. Please don't think me joking when I tell you that the SOPC mafia is alive and well and that the people who endured the exprience have yet another layer bonding them.

Stay safe,

Books

A light just turned on when I read your post. Perhaps my friend found SOPC to be more punishment than training, but maybe that was the point... I think I get it now. I'm not in this for the money. I have a high-paying contracting job now, so this not a money making move, but I'll take what I can get. In the meantime, I'll focus on the tried and true...

Scimitar: I hear you on the knees. ACL surgery set me back a couple years from when I was going to join, but I rehabbed hard and it all got better. Keep the faith! I'll keep you informed!

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by amatlis

Scimitar: I hear you on the knees. ACL surgery set me back a couple years from when I was going to join, but I rehabbed hard and it all got better. Keep the faith! I'll keep you informed!

Good stuff Amatlis

S

[Swank]

Originally Posted by amatlis

Swank: Thank you for the supportive comment. You have an interesting point about the math of delaying and losing army income just to gain $5k bonus, but you're assuming I don't currently have a job. How do you know I don't currently make significantly more than $5k/mo?

Erroneous and irrelevant. Order I said!

Books, I'm what kind of magnet?

[Books]

That would be a nasty, dirty Army money cash magnet. You're the current reigning GRAP ninja.

I swear, one of these days I'll actually get a re-enlistment bonus.

For the rest of you non-qual types: If you're considering coming to WAARNG to go SF, the current drug deal to get you in is this:

1 - you have to be in the WAARNG with an established MOS, what type is immaterial, but you have to have it.

2 - You are not assigned to A/1/19 until you pass SFAS, to which you will attend TDY.

3 - Once you get selected, we'll transfer you to A/1/19, and send you TDY to Airborne or CPT maneuver or whatever is required before you attend SFQC.

4 - Once that is done, we "Mob for Training" you to the long course, you go, get injured, recycled and graduated and come home with a big knife, a fancy hat and a long tab.

5 - We put your ass to work.

If you're a contracting-type with skills (mad dope skills, hacking skills, nunchuck skills) or you have the right background (former Recon, SEAL, Ranger, PJ, Ninja, etc), give us a call. Deals can be made to massage the transition and get you straight to the course. Most of the guys are out of the office right now at training, etc, but get in touch with the Readiness NCO and he'll set you straight.

Books