Question about 18x - Page 2

greenberetTFS · 06-13-2009, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue02hd

fng (nice nickname btw)

It seems to me you are trying to juggle apples and oranges. You have remarked on the desire to acquire additional maturity and time to physically train while you pursue a Masters. You have conveyed that you believe that will better prepare you for an attempt at SFAS and eventually the teams. From my experiences this could not be further from the truth.

Get your education, it will set you up for success after the service. Do not expect to gain maturity or wisdom from your additional degree, as that can only be gained with experience and time on the job. The best SF soldiers I have worked with were outstanding soldiers prior to joining the teams, not because of any civilian diploma. Their experience and maturity began when they were privates and continued on from there.

I have worked with and have met many a Masters Grad that I wouldn't let watch my son while I went to the store 10 minutes away let alone watch my back downrange. Education does not guarantee you common sense.
One QP has suggested that SFAS will always be there, well the opposite is also true. Your Masters will always be there as well, and the Army does have programs that will financially assist you in reaching that goal. You can really go either way. Just depends on what is more important to you.

If and when you join the Army you will be leaving the civilian culture and entering into the military culture which you do not understand yet. You could be a Rhodes Scholar or waiving a fresh GED and it won't matter the first time a Drill Sgt singles you out.

You must figure out what is most important to you and then follow your heart, tuck your chin, and go get it.

I wish you luck on your Masters. Just remember, not all post grads make it to their Masters Ceremony.

I wish you luck if SFAS. Statistically, the odds are definitely against you there.

All My Best

blue02hd,

That's pretty damn good advice you gave that young man,lets hope he understands it.....

GB TFS

Utah Bob · 06-14-2009, 07:43

I think you need to do some serious soul searching. My impression, based only on your writings here, is that you may not find the military and SF to be what you think.

As mentioned, your advanced degree will not help you gain maturity. Maturity is seldom reached in the world of academia. The sheepskin will not impress neither your Drill Sergeant nor the nasty people bent on using you to earn their marksmanship badges.

You can always earn that MA while in the service. That is the way most do it. West Pointers graduate with a Bachelor's, lace up their boots and go to work.

Good luck to you.

fng13 · 06-14-2009, 09:18

UTAH BOB-

Thanks for your advice and your service. I am sorry though sir I disagree with you that i need to do some "serious soul searching." I know what i want out of my life and how to get it. The original point of this thread was to make sure that 18x would be around when I got done with school, not if I "needed" a masters degree. I think it would be better to me to get my masters in a year and a half right after my BA then wait and try to bog myself down while trying to serve. I think I would have enough on my plate in the army to keep myself busy without trying to earn my masters at the same time. I don't think that an extra year of school will harm me or my ability to serve, and as far as knowing the military life no i do not have the first hand experience but if my "writings" make you think that I am way off base especially about my motivation to join the military/sf then I must ask what was so wrong about it. Also, i am not trying to get my masters to "impress" anyone. I want it because I have the opportunity to finish school in one shot and have it paid for by the army. I might also ask, what experience you have in academia that leads you to believe that it can gain you no maturity and basically has no worth. If your basis is from movies where kids run around and just get drunk and act stupid at every turn I can assure you that that is not how I take my opportunity for schooling, nor do most of the students around me. I think that stereotype of the party 24/7 is the exception not the rule.
While I greatly respect your experience sir, I must disagree with you on this matter.

fng13

**The Reaper** · 06-14-2009, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by fng13

UTAH BOB-

Thanks for your advice and your service. I am sorry though sir I disagree with you that i need to do some "serious soul searching." I know what i want out of my life and how to get it. The original point of this thread was to make sure that 18x would be around when I got done with school, not if I "needed" a masters degree. I think it would be better to me to get my masters in a year and a half right after my BA then wait and try to bog myself down while trying to serve. I think I would have enough on my plate in the army to keep myself busy without trying to earn my masters at the same time. I don't think that an extra year of school will harm me or my ability to serve, and as far as knowing the military life no i do not have the first hand experience but if my "writings" make you think that I am way off base especially about my motivation to join the military/sf then I must ask what was so wrong about it. Also, i am not trying to get my masters to "impress" anyone. I want it because I have the opportunity to finish school in one shot and have it paid for by the army. I might also ask, what experience you have in academia that leads you to believe that it can gain you no maturity and basically has no worth. If your basis is from movies where kids run around and just get drunk and act stupid at every turn I can assure you that that is not how I take my opportunity for schooling, nor do most of the students around me. I think that stereotype of the party 24/7 is the exception not the rule.
While I greatly respect your experience sir, I must disagree with you on this matter.

fng13

fng:

You are a guest here. As noted in the Rules, this board is for QPs. I suggest that you mind your manners and check the attitude. I can see the maturity issue from here.

You asked for opinions and got them, from people who have done what you seem to think you want to do. It sounds to me like you already have your mind made up, and are looking for others to validate your decision. Fine, go ahead and do it. None of the strangers here will have to live with the consequeces of your decision.

I disagree with your assessment. You can get a Masters at age 80 as a paraplegic. SF team time is a young man's game. I got my Masters many years after being a team guy, and I do not see any upside to having the degree as a team member. Having said that, you did ask about the 18X program status. The short answer is, no one here knows. As mentioned, that is not the only route to SF.

Given your attitude, I doubt that SF service will be an option for you anyway, at which point, you have signed a contract for six years as an infantryman. You do not need any degrees to go SF. The longer you wait, the older you are and the less time you will have on a team. IMHO, you need to decide if you want a grad degree, or to be SF. The fact that you have asked this question leads me to believe that you do not really want to be an SF soldier. I am sorry if that hurts your feelings. That is based on many years of watching candidates and students in the SFAS/SFQC, and over 20 years in SF. If you do not want to go immediately and get into the job, you are not ready for SF.

TR

Utah Bob · 06-14-2009, 17:39

Son, I'm afraid you just don't get it. Hopefully you will.
I do wish you good luck.

Out

06-14-2009, 17:44

Personally, I think the young man has been very polite here....some of you seem to get a tad bent out of shape when a young man doesn't agree with a QPs opinion 100%. As far as age goes, he will only be 23/24 when he completes a masters program. Since when is that old for SF?

fng13 · 06-15-2009, 09:14

I apologize if my posts were construde as being argumentitive or full of attitude, I just didn't think that was a fair shake assesment of my situation. I meant no disrespect. At the start of this thread i was merely looking for an opinion, from those on the inside, of whether or not 18x would be around in a couple years. I got my answers and i thank all of you for posting. I did not mean to imply at all that I was looking for validation on getting my masters. I do hope however that 23/24 is not too old to join, from what i have read on other threads it doesn't seem to be. I really am eager to join but not so much that i am willing to set myself up to fail just to hurry the process up.
I do have one more question and i hope that i am not overstepping and this is no way meant to be disrespectful or sarcastic, this is meant as a real question.
Can you really assess me as incapable of completing sfas based on my public profile and small amount of posting on a single thread? I hope that this is not really the case, because I would sure hate to be damned to lose the race before I get off the blocks.

Thanks again for the insight, and your service.

WCH- thanks for your post

**The Reaper** · 06-15-2009, 09:52

IMHO, anyone who starts out not totally dedicated to selection (the "Tab or Cast" mentality), completely certain of their desires, or looking at anything else as a goal ahead of becoming SF lacks the motivation to succeed when the going gets tough and is not ready for SFAS.

When you are physically spent, injured, emotionally drained, mentally exhausted, and four hours behind on the last leg of your long range individual movement, and you start to wonder if you should have gone to grad school instead, how are you going to motivate yourself to perform?

Since you asked, I have seen a lot of guys who succeeded and even more who have failed, and those selected rarely seemed to have gone through the questions that you are engaging in. They also accepted the opinions offered by QPs and resolutely made up their own minds without a lot of attempts at justification or rationalization of their decisions. When you ask for opinions, accept them gratefully, consider the source, analyze them for applicability, make your own decision, and drive on. Don't quibble about the responses.

Realistically, it doesn't matter if SFAS is there for you in two years or not. If it isn't you join up, soldier your ass off, and put in your packet to attend SFAS as soon as you are eligible.

IMHO, you seem to lack the motivation and total dedication to succeed. I could always be wrong, and standards seem to be at a low point now in favor of numbers. If you manage to make it through, come back and let us know.

Best of luck.

TR

Richard · 06-15-2009, 10:08

Quote:

Since you asked, I have seen a lot of guys who succeeded and even more who have failed, and those selected rarely seemed to have gone through the questions that you are engaging in.

I have to concur with this sentiment. Personally, I really never thought about failing - just committed myself to never quitting.

Richard's $.02

greenberetTFS · 06-15-2009, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

I have to concur with this sentiment. Personally, I really never thought about failing - just committed myself to never quitting.

Richard's $.02

Agree entirely........

I had that same mindset exactly............

GB TFS

fng13 · 06-15-2009, 21:12

IMHO i didn't ask at the beginning of this thread on whether or not i should get my masters. I simply asked if the 18x was likely to still be around when i completed it. I will get my masters and then not ever have to think should i have gotten it while im hauling my ruck in the mud. I also never said anything about not having a strong conviction to join or wanting to quit. IMHO you dont know enough about me to make a judgement about my personality. It seems to me that i was being told opinions that it was falsly assumed i wanted, (i.e. opinions of the worth of a masters degree) then when i tried to correct this miscommunication i am told that this makes me unsuitable for sf. Furthermore I sincerely doubt that every special operations soldier enlisted as soon as he was of age (18). I have never posted on this sight before and as such have tried to be as polite and respectful as men of your stature deserve, but I won't be told i can't do something based on an opinion of someone who knows little to nothing about me. There also does not seem to be a consenses of opinion amongst the QP's that have posted on this thread that 1. getting my masters is a waste of time and/or i should not do 2. that questioning the negative early assessment of my position makes me unfit for service.

fng13

abc_123 · 06-15-2009, 21:46

Everybody can be judged whether you think that someone else knows enough about you or not. YOU are not in contol of what others think or in many cases what they do. Like it or not.

The fact that you felt compelled to post your last post is an indicator to me that points to lack of maturity, and ability to objectively view a situation that you are a participant of.

A scan of this thread shows that you got a lot of advice and opinions. Isnt' that what you wanted? So why the pouty-lip post? (This question is rhetorical... I'm not really interested in an answer)

"Appreciate the feedback, thanks." would have worked for a response, but since that wasn't it, I have to assume that you're fishing for an affirmation of your thought process, an apology for others simply giving you feedback that you asked for, or maybe a good old fashioned hug.

My opinion is for you to just do what you want.

However, if you feel that futher flogging of this dead horse is necessary, then my opinion would be that you need to get that Masters. Not because it will help you on a team, but simply to give you more time to mature before you would potentially show up on one.

Richard · 06-16-2009, 04:46

Quote:

IMHO i didn't ask at the beginning of this thread on whether or not i should get my masters.

Quote:

I think I would like to get my masters before signing my 18x.

Based on your original sentence regarding an MA - sure sounds to me as if you were undecided when you asked us about the 18X program.

So - which is it?

If you read the entire thread, you can see very succinctly the logical line of reasoning the answers to your original posting followed - all based on your wording of your postings.

And your name - fng13 - does that stand for effin' new guy marijuana lover - 13 is generally associated with the letter M and drugs - or are you that naive to think we're that naive - or is that just another instance of you not being quite clear in your posting. Think about it - why might someone calling himself fng13 not be taken as seriously as he would like? You've just been granted a HUGE opportunity to learn something you may not get in college - so will you?

Richard's $.02

06-16-2009, 05:30

fng13, If it was known that the 18X enlistment program was being discontinued on 31 Oct 2009, would you put your plans to earn a masters degree on hold and enlist now with a ship date sometime after you get your BA/BS?

If your answer is no, then you shouldn't have started this thread.

fng13 · 06-16-2009, 06:23

thanks for your feedback

i chose fng as my nickname because i thought its something the military folks on here would understand/find humorous. 13 came because that has been my number in sports since i was 5, not as a reference to marijuana.

wch- yes i would, finishing school is my way of taking full advantage of the opportunity i have now before moving on. thats it no big secret or anything. If the 18x program was going to end i would definately forget graduate school. Which is why i started this thread.

thanks
fng13

ps. thanks for again for the help, sorry for being bull headed and not just shutting my mouth and taking in the advice. i will be better.

“He has honor if he holds himself to an ideal of conduct though it is inconvenient, unprofitable, or dangerous to do so.”-Walter Lippmann