Someone Let the Cat Out of the Bag

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Defender968

I have played and coached soccer for the past 25 years and I can tell you there is every bit as much conflict and aggression in soccer as there is in football, the competition is fierce and physical aggression is every bit as real as in football, the ways of taking it out are simply different.

I think what you're describing has more to do with the everyone gets a trophy style of thinking that has become so pervasive in nearly all sports and in our society today rather than the aspects of the individual sports children are playing today.

The problem as I see it is as others have stated, we are simply raising fewer and fewer sheepdogs and more and more sheep.

I can vividly remember my father teaching me to never start a fight, but to always defend myself, consequently I learned that if the fight came to me, I should seek to finish it quickly to protect myself and others. From what I've seen today most parents teach their children not to fight for any reason, they teach their children to simply walk away. Which I have to say I can understand in some ways when you consider what would have been a simple fist fight in my youth may end up with a shooting or stabbing today.

Defender,

You cannot equate aggression and conflict in footbal/wrestling with soccer... that is until they start issuing "yellow cards" for "excessively hard hits" or "moves that hurt" in football or wrestling. With all due respect to your 25 yrs, soccer does not equate with football or wrestling with respect to physical violence. Period.

That does not mean that one can't be tough and play soccer. I already stated that the generalization does not hold up in each and every case.

I agree with your opinion that it has a lot to do with the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality.

For the record, I was also raised that way with respect ot starting/finishing fights.

abc

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Defender,

You cannot equate aggression and conflict in footbal/wrestling with soccer... that is until they start issuing "yellow cards" for "excessively hard hits" or "moves that hurt" in football or wrestling. With all due respect to your 25 yrs, soccer does not equate with football or wrestling with respect to physical violence. Period.

That does not mean that one can't be tough and play soccer. I already stated that the generalization does not hold up in each and every case.

I agree with your opinion that it has a lot to do with the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality.

For the record, I was also raised that way with respect ot starting/finishing fights.

abc

abc,

You guys forced me to have to say this...... First of all, I agree with you on your response....... However, HOCKEY is the most physical violent sport in the USA....Anyone who has played it,really played it, will tell it's not for "pussies".

GB TFS

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

abc,

You guys forced me to have to say this...... First of all, I agree with you on your response....... However, HOCKEY is the most physical violent sport in the USA....Anyone who has played it,really played it, will tell it's not for "pussies".

GB TFS

For all the "fights" that occur in NHL Hockey, no one every seems to get hurt too much. Lots of swinging and hitting padded areas is what I see. Almost as sad as baseball "fights"! At least in NBA Basketball, when someone gets a "hard foul" there isn't anything between them and the hip, hand, forearm, scorers table, stands, or the floor except their modern-day "Daisy Duke's"!

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Defender,

You cannot equate aggression and conflict in footbal/wrestling with soccer... that is until they start issuing "yellow cards" for "excessively hard hits" or "moves that hurt" in football or wrestling. With all due respect to your 25 yrs, soccer does not equate with football or wrestling with respect to physical violence. Period.

That does not mean that one can't be tough and play soccer. I already stated that the generalization does not hold up in each and every case.

I agree with your opinion that it has a lot to do with the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality.

For the record, I was also raised that way with respect ot starting/finishing fights.

abc

ABC_123 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I would agree with you on the wrestling but not football.

Yellow/red cards are no different than some penalties in football, they are meant to try to keep players safe from illegal or overly dangerous moves and to try to control the game. In soccer you can't tackle from behind, in football you can't spearhead, there are prohibited moves in both sports which are highly likely to cause significant injuries. I would also argue that in soccer more control is necessary as the players aren't covered head to toe in pads and wearing a helmet, just two little shin guards.

[Utah Bob]

One can be tough and play soccer.


But one doesn't have to be.

1940: 30,000,000
1960: 60,000,000
1980: 120,000,000
2000: 240,000,000
2020: we should have 480,000,000 living Americans. Given this is 2009, we are on target, but in...

In 1940, we had aprox. 30M living Americans, we were world ranked 43rd in armed forces strength. After, 7 Dec. 1941 we pushed recruitment to 10% of our population to enlistments in the Army, Navy, Marines. By 1945, aprox. 13,000,000 US citizens wore a uniform, over 1/3 of us. An equal labor force of men, (9,000,000) and women, (2,500,000) worked in factories building planes, tanks, trucks, rifles and ammo in all sizes. The Boy Scouts started the first recyling efforts, (Pots, Pans, rubber tires, old shoes, Coke bottles, etc.). The Girl Scouts baked cookies for the Red Cross. And yes, they had uniforms. We had major city curfews after 10pm, lights out over East and West coast cities after midnight. Hollywood made war movies and sold War Bonds. In short, 75-80% of our citizens were directly involved in the war effort.

If you feel alone, consider, in todays role, we have less than 1% serving in all armed forces, and one might find an open Starbucks after midnight.

We might put the enemy on their heels if we start acting like a nation at war.

Does anyone know that we have today more Generals on active duty then we did when we had 13,000,000 in uniform.

By the way, if you're wearing a uniform tonight, THANK YOU.

Originally Posted by abc_123

Very true, I'm afraid.

I look at the hoards of kids playing youth soccer as compared to football or wrestling and I am not encouraged that this situation will reverse itself in the near future.

[Razor]

I have to agree with abc123 regarding contact sports. While there are important lessons on perserverence, teamwork, dedication, practice and being a good citizen (aka good sportsmanship) available through non-contact sports such as soccer, there's a lot to be said for looking a guy in the eye knowing that in the next few seconds you'll be coming into violent contact in an effort to physically overcome one another. That level of confidence/courage just isn't something you get in sports that aim to prevent all but incidental contact with another player.

[zuluzerosix]

I wonder if on a regional scale what kind of G's Americans would make, if say SF was training G's all over the U.S.? Would folks from the South make better guerillas than, say West Coast "dudes?"

It seems resonable to me that the SF would experience the same things here that they would experience in other "Guerilla communities." Some would be good, some would be bad. But I am
curious, as to what kind of Guerilla today's Americans would make.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by wet dog

1940: 30,000,000
1960: 60,000,000
1980: 120,000,000
2000: 240,000,000
2020: we should have 480,000,000 living Americans. Given this is 2009, we are on target, but in...

In 1940, we had aprox. 30M living Americans, we were world ranked 43rd in armed forces strength. After, 7 Dec. 1941 we pushed recruitment to 10% of our population to enlistments in the Army, Navy, Marines. By 1945, aprox. 13,000,000 US citizens wore a uniform, over 1/3 of us. An equal labor force of men, (9,000,000) and women, (2,500,000) worked in factories building planes, tanks, trucks, rifles and ammo in all sizes. The Boy Scouts started the first recyling efforts, (Pots, Pans, rubber tires, old shoes, Coke bottles, etc.). The Girl Scouts baked cookies for the Red Cross. And yes, they had uniforms. We had major city curfews after 10pm, lights out over East and West coast cities after midnight. Hollywood made war movies and sold War Bonds. In short, 75-80% of our citizens were directly involved in the war effort.

If you feel alone, consider, in todays role, we have less than 1% serving in all armed forces, and one might find an open Starbucks after midnight.

We might put the enemy on their heels if we start acting like a nation at war.

Does anyone know that we have today more Generals on active duty then we did when we had 13,000,000 in uniform.

By the way, if you're wearing a uniform tonight, THANK YOU.

I agree with your sentiments and description of what we did, but the numbers are off.

http://www.census.gov/popest/archive...opclockest.txt


National Population Average Annual
Date Population Change Percent Change


July 1, 1999 272,690,813 2,442,810 0.90
July 1, 1998 270,248,003 2,464,396 0.92
July 1, 1997 267,783,607 2,555,035 0.96
July 1, 1996 265,228,572 2,425,296 0.92
July 1, 1995 262,803,276 2,476,255 0.95
July 1, 1994 260,327,021 2,544,413 0.99
July 1, 1993 257,782,608 2,752,909 1.08
July 1, 1992 255,029,699 2,876,607 1.14
July 1, 1991 252,153,092 2,688,696 1.08
July 1, 1990 249,464,396 2,645,166 1.07

July 1, 1989 246,819,230 2,320,248 0.94
July 1, 1988 244,498,982 2,210,064 0.91
July 1, 1987 242,288,918 2,156,031 0.89
July 1, 1986 240,132,887 2,209,092 0.92
July 1, 1985 237,923,795 2,098,893 0.89
July 1, 1984 235,824,902 2,032,908 0.87
July 1, 1983 233,791,994 2,127,536 0.91
July 1, 1982 231,664,458 2,198,744 0.95
July 1, 1981 229,465,714 2,241,033 0.98
July 1, 1980 227,224,681 2,169,194 0.96

July 1, 1979 225,055,487 2,470,942 1.10
July 1, 1978 222,584,545 2,345,120 1.06
July 1, 1977 220,239,425 2,204,261 1.01
July 1, 1976 218,035,164 2,061,965 0.95
July 1, 1975 215,973,199 2,119,271 0.99
July 1, 1974 213,853,928 1,945,140 0.91
July 1, 1973 211,908,788 2,012,767 0.95
July 1, 1972 209,896,021 2,235,344 1.07
July 1, 1971 207,660,677 2,608,503 1.26
July 1, 1970 205,052,174 2,375,228 1.17

July 1, 1969 202,676,946 1,970,894 0.98
July 1, 1968 200,706,052 1,993,996 1.00
July 1, 1967 198,712,056 2,151,718 1.09
July 1, 1966 196,560,338 2,257,375 1.16
July 1, 1965 194,302,963 2,414,172 1.25
July 1, 1964 191,888,791 2,646,993 1.39
July 1, 1963 189,241,798 2,704,061 1.44
July 1, 1962 186,537,737 2,846,256 1.54
July 1, 1961 183,691,481 3,020,323 1.66
July 1, 1960 180,671,158 2,841,530 1.59

July 1, 1959 177,829,628 2,947,724 1.67
July 1, 1958 174,881,904 2,897,774 1.67
July 1, 1957 171,984,130 3,081,099 1.81
July 1, 1956 168,903,031 2,971,829 1.78
July 1, 1955 165,931,202 2,905,348 1.77
July 1, 1954 163,025,854 2,841,662 1.76
July 1, 1953 160,184,192 2,631,452 1.66
July 1, 1952 157,552,740 2,674,851 1.71
July 1, 1951 154,877,889 2,606,472 1.70
July 1, 1950 152,271,417 3,083,287 2.05

July 1, 1949 149,188,130 2,556,828 1.73
July 1, 1948 146,631,302 2,505,231 1.72
July 1, 1947 144,126,071 2,737,505 1.92
July 1, 1946 141,388,566 1,460,401 1.04
July 1, 1945 139,928,165 1,530,820 1.10
July 1, 1944 138,397,345 1,657,992 1.21
July 1, 1943 136,739,353 1,879,800 1.38
July 1, 1942 134,859,553 1,457,082 1.09
July 1, 1941 133,402,471 1,280,025 0.96
July 1, 1940 132,122,446 1,242,728 0.95

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by wet dog

1940: 30,000,000
1960: 60,000,000
1980: 120,000,000
2000: 240,000,000
2020: we should have 480,000,000 living Americans. Given this is 2009, we are on target, but in...

In 1940, we had aprox. 30M living Americans, we were world ranked 43rd in armed forces strength. After, 7 Dec. 1941 we pushed recruitment to 10% of our population to enlistments in the Army, Navy, Marines. By 1945, aprox. 13,000,000 US citizens wore a uniform, over 1/3 of us. An equal labor force of men, (9,000,000) and women, (2,500,000) worked in factories building planes, tanks, trucks, rifles and ammo in all sizes. The Boy Scouts started the first recyling efforts, (Pots, Pans, rubber tires, old shoes, Coke bottles, etc.). The Girl Scouts baked cookies for the Red Cross. And yes, they had uniforms. We had major city curfews after 10pm, lights out over East and West coast cities after midnight. Hollywood made war movies and sold War Bonds. In short, 75-80% of our citizens were directly involved in the war effort.

If you feel alone, consider, in todays role, we have less than 1% serving in all armed forces, and one might find an open Starbucks after midnight.

We might put the enemy on their heels if we start acting like a nation at war.

Does anyone know that we have today more Generals on active duty then we did when we had 13,000,000 in uniform.

By the way, if you're wearing a uniform tonight, THANK YOU.

WD,

Your bringing back some really old memories....... I remember flattening metal cans for the tin can drives as well as rounding up old newspapers and bringing them down to our grade school to get weighed in to see who won the prizes which consisted of Uncle Sam pin buttons to proudly wear at school.....
Worn out rags,old bald tires were also items we would be looking for,but enough about the early years.......... I doubt their are many guys here that remember that far back.

GB TFS

GB TFS

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

For all the "fights" that occur in NHL Hockey, no one every seems to get hurt too much. Lots of swinging and hitting padded areas is what I see. Almost as sad as baseball "fights"! At least in NBA Basketball, when someone gets a "hard foul" there isn't anything between them and the hip, hand, forearm, scorers table, stands, or the floor except their modern-day "Daisy Duke's"!

ZD,

That's where your making the mistake......It's not the fights I'm talking about,it's the stamina that it takes to play your shift. To be able to take the checks(both legal and the cheap shot ones)..... I was a defense men and I had two basic responsibilities,first to protect the goalie,which meant you take out anyone who tries to injure him and God help you if you didn't.The second is to protect your wings and center if they get pushed into a fight. I was nick named the "enforcer" by my team mates...... I,like Colonel Jack Moroney whom I never knew personally,but shared many PM's with talking about our days in the early 50's when we played without helmets or mouth pieces,that was HOCKEY......

GB TFS

I've seen personal behaviors change in the same tribe as family or economic stresses increase or decrease. But I think any "Texas G" would be welcome on my patrol.

WD

Originally Posted by zuluzerosix

I wonder if on a regional scale what kind of G's Americans would make, if say SF was training G's all over the U.S.? Would folks from the South make better guerillas than, say West Coast "dudes?"

It seems resonable to me that the SF would experience the same things here that they would experience in other "Guerilla communities." Some would be good, some would be bad. But I am
curious, as to what kind of Guerilla today's Americans would make.

[iamwill]

Edit

[thecomedian]

One could argue the idea that as a sigifigant amount of people in the United States become increasingly ignorant about the acuality of world politics and become less active in keeping the United States safe from any foreign threat there is a minority becoming more knowledgable about world politics and more active in the protection of the United States and the retention of our freedoms. Ying and Yang, when the sun rises the moon falls....Figuratively speaking.

[bluebb]

NOT...

If you don't play rugby you are a puss.

Football and wrestling are borderline tough

Blue