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Old 10-25-2008, 00:48   #16
hoot72
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Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper View Post
Unintended consequences of business partnerships.

Also look into a Cross purchase insurance plan. Essentially buying life insurance on each of the partners. The premiums are usually tax deductible and you can plan these out with attorney's and financial planners that specialize in estate planning and business succession planning.

You can agree what it will take to buy out the idiot family members so that when or the other of you becomes deceased idiot sons, wivess and daughters can be paid out a lump sum and told to walk down the road in the traffic.

It's protecting your business, and can be done if you or your partner becomes disabled also.

Talk to qualified estate planning professionals.

Perhaps a private placement of stock can raise capital and keep the idiots out of the cash box.
Thanks for that 82 trooper. That was an angle I hadn't been told about or advised about. Its very much appreciated.

Sigh...
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Old 10-25-2008, 10:04   #17
Paslode
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As Gypsy pointed out...I thought is was your wife.

If it was my Brothers wife it would be more complicated unless he is 100% with you/me on the matter.

If I called my Brother in Law the lawyer and told him a senario such as yours, I am guessing he would ask me:

What is the basis of your concern?
What is the business worth? What is your basis of the worth? What assets are involved?
Did you have a business plan? Was it in writting? Was it signed? Who drafted it?
Did you have a profit distribution plan? Was it in writting? Was it signed? Who drafted it?
Is she an officer or shareholder?
Who is authorized to draft checks? Is she a signator on the back accounts?
Is she entitled to proceeeds from the business? If so how much?
Is your brother aware of the situation?
Does the business have any debt?
Are you behind on payments?
Can you buy the others out? Is it worth buying out?

And he would warn me of all the family and financial reprecussions that could be involved.....including his fees. And inform it would be advisable to get this settled out of the courts if possible.

You might get some leverage from your financial lenders and vendors if your seen as the most responsible in managing the business. Vendors want to sell product and Lenders want to continue getting payments on time. It is their best interest that the business succeed. I know it happens, but have no idea how you accomplish that.....maybe with the assistance of an Accountant and Lawyer.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:50   #18
hoot72
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Originally Posted by Paslode View Post
As Gypsy pointed out...I thought is was your wife.

If it was my Brothers wife it would be more complicated unless he is 100% with you/me on the matter.

If I called my Brother in Law the lawyer and told him a senario such as yours, I am guessing he would ask me:

What is the basis of your concern?
What is the business worth? What is your basis of the worth? What assets are involved?
Did you have a business plan? Was it in writting? Was it signed? Who drafted it?
Did you have a profit distribution plan? Was it in writting? Was it signed? Who drafted it?
Is she an officer or shareholder?
Who is authorized to draft checks? Is she a signator on the back accounts?
Is she entitled to proceeeds from the business? If so how much?
Is your brother aware of the situation?
Does the business have any debt?
Are you behind on payments?
Can you buy the others out? Is it worth buying out?

And he would warn me of all the family and financial reprecussions that could be involved.....including his fees. And inform it would be advisable to get this settled out of the courts if possible.

You might get some leverage from your financial lenders and vendors if your seen as the most responsible in managing the business. Vendors want to sell product and Lenders want to continue getting payments on time. It is their best interest that the business succeed. I know it happens, but have no idea how you accomplish that.....maybe with the assistance of an Accountant and Lawyer.

Thanks for the advice paslode. I am sorry I took so long to reply back but..

We got the audited accounts sorted out for 2008-2009 to show a profit and to show the company performed a hell of a lot better than previous years and injected more capital into the company and increased the value of shares by transfering some properties into the company's asset list .

Also filed a complaint against the bank with the federal government that they (the bank) were not giving us a chance despite us submitting a business turn around plan and also shown a change in direction for the better with fresh capital pumped in and the company not showing negative share capital.

That worked. The feds did apply pressure on the banks to give us the financial help we needed and it took 2 months but, it was solved.

Thanks so much for the help and advice guys...much appreciated.

It was however, many sleepless nights and worrying...
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:12   #19
Paslode
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It was however, many sleepless nights and worrying...
Always be prepared for more


Happy to hear it work in your favor and best of luck to you!
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:29   #20
Remington Raidr
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how about "the rest . . . of the story"

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Originally Posted by hoot72 View Post
Also filed a complaint against the bank with the federal government that they (the bank) were not giving us a chance despite us submitting a business turn around plan and also shown a change in direction for the better with fresh capital pumped in and the company not showing negative share capital.

That worked. The feds did apply pressure on the banks to give us the financial help we needed and it took 2 months but, it was solved.
So you got the gubmint to compel the banks to give you a loan. Good for you. More than a few people did that stateside, and, well, there were some . . . problems. Enquiring minds want to know, strictly business-wise, how did you muzzle, de-fang, or otherwise tame the wicked witch of down under? I'm not seeing it here, and SHE seemed like a BIG part of the problem. Specifically did you have your OWN (not your company's or your brother's) attorney? How did you resolve the chunk of change she has already taken? Just askin'.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:09   #21
hoot72
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Originally Posted by Paslode View Post
Always be prepared for more


Happy to hear it work in your favor and best of luck to you!

Cheers mate..appreciate it..but yes, I am sure there will be more obstacles ahead for sure....there always are.

Don't you sometimes miss student life? Life was so much less "complicated."

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Old 02-12-2010, 05:21   #22
hoot72
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Originally Posted by Remington Raidr View Post
So you got the gubmint to compel the banks to give you a loan. Good for you. More than a few people did that stateside, and, well, there were some . . . problems. Enquiring minds want to know, strictly business-wise, how did you muzzle, de-fang, or otherwise tame the wicked witch of down under? I'm not seeing it here, and SHE seemed like a BIG part of the problem. Specifically did you have your OWN (not your company's or your brother's) attorney? How did you resolve the chunk of change she has already taken? Just askin'.


To be honest, I learned a hell of a lot from A-Z on how banks look upon loan applications and trade facilities in the space of 6 months and that helped; getting sound advice from a banker who is a friend and can explain to you why applications keep getting rejected does help because banks just usually can't be bothered to explain why.

1) We had a negative share capital and were technically insolvent (bankrupt).
2) We had existing loans to the business which were relatively short term (15 years) with re-payments taking a toll on the business each month due to the heavy commitments.
3) High running costs which was reflected in the P+L Statement and Balance sheets as well as inventory being low due to a lack of trade facilities (which we were trying to get in the first place to allow us to purchase inventory and to allow us to repay the bills for these inventories 120 days later).
4) It was obvious to the banks the company was being run into the ground with poor management decisions and 3 years of back to back losses that took the company into losses exceeding 800k AUD.

It actually took 2 years of audited accounts that showed a profit and the company injecting more cash back into the company to take us out of insolvency and moving some properties into the company as well as a detailed explanation WHY we got into trouble in the first place and what changes we had made as well as what our future plans were as far as a point by point turn around plan including increasing our inventory but improving turnover of inventory in a reasonable period of time that helped.

We were LUCKY. Very very lucky. Our audited accounts for 2007-2008 took forever to get done so we never got to show the actual accounts to the bank but a draft copy. By the time I realized why our applications were getting rejected with a little bit of help from the feds who hinted that "if i got the company out of negative share capital, it would make a HUGE difference between getting what we asked for as far as trade bills were concerned" it put me on the right track.

I had sacked our previous auditors, hired a new one who was highly recommended by the feds, got the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 audited accounts sorted out by showing consistent improvements in the turnover of sales, lower running costs and increased inventory (we ordered more inventory which helped increase sales but negotiated for longer repayment plans for a short period of time) and then pumped in cash from golf memberships which were sold and disposal of my and my bro's personal cars with the cash being used as working capital for the company and taking pay cuts as directors.

We also requested for the loans to be extended into longer term loans with lower repayments per month and that was also approved.

It does help to understand why as I said banks say NO because as I said, most of the time, they don't bother telling why so if you can get an answer from them as to what specifically was the reason you didn't get the loans or facilities you asked for, you at least can sort the problems out and then go back to them with a better chance of getting perhaps what you need...or getting some of what you need..
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