Weapons training advice

[kgoerz]

I am in a 12 week training Academy right now. We shoot just about every day. Being in the second week we are just now finishing our 15M to 25M slow fire. As painful as a week+ of slow fire was. It improved my shooting greatly. Don’t think slow fire is only for beginners. Its something you have to continuously return to.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

A weak grip tells me the individual is not an advanced shooter and will have a long road ahead to become a great shooter. Conversely a strong grip tells me that they have the necessary physical strength to become an advanced shooter

Sir, I am surely in the weak grip category. I would appreciate guidance on how I can begin remedying the situation.

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by nmap

Sir, I am surely in the weak grip category. I would appreciate guidance on how I can begin remedying the situation.

nmap:

Not sure why you think your grip isn't strong enough but mash a racket ball for a few hours a day and after about six months you will notice a very decisive ability to grip things. There are a bunch of things you can do but probably the racket ball technique will be one you may even stick with for more than a week. Obviously you don't lift weights for exercise. If you did, you would not be questioning your ability to hold on to a pistol under recoil.

So what are your goals? I am not sure if motivation occurs before goals or goals create motivation. Honestly, no one knows which comes first. Goals assist in focusing your motivation and resources. The stronger your desire to achieve a very well defined goal, the more you will be willing to sacrifice other things in order to attain that goal.

Define your goals very specifically. Then state how you will attain those goals -- very specifically. There are many web sites devoted to goals setting and accomplishment. All say about the same things.

Let me caution you on a couple of things. Guys who are goals oriented get upset when others start out their goals statements with caveats such as "I only have ten rounds of ammo per week and can only get to the range once every month." Or "my wife doesn't like guns so I have to keep this real quiet." Or "I work two jobs so do not have a-lot of time." Guys who caveat stuff are already saying that they aren't serious about goals attainment. They are giving themselves and excuse for failing to achieve their goals.

Gene on Goals

[nmap]

Thank you, Sir. I appreciate the excellent ideas.

Actually, I do a minimal amount of weight lifting - I go to a small gym and do 30 minutes of cardio workout and 10 minutes on a universal machine, 5 times per week. It's better than nothing, but not much.

I can hold onto the firearm well enough (Glock 22, 155 gr. Federal Hydroshoks), and hit the target at usual civilian training distances of 15 yards or less - but the shots lack the precision I would like. I'm also unhappy with my speed and effectiveness when I try to do a double-tap.

My goal is simple enough - I want to improve my self-defense abilities (yes, I know I need to be more specific). It's my opinion that some of the long term economic trends will increase the crime levels, and hence the likelihood of facing some challenges in the years ahead. But you make a good point about "caveats" - excuses for failure mark a poor beginning for any project.

I'll take a look at the goal setting material you mention; decades ago, I went to a motivation seminar that emphasized writing down goals. I was amazed at some of the things I got done.

Thank you again. I'll find that racket ball and start squeezing.

[x-factor]

I went shooting today for the first time since at least November (I had sports injuries to my left wrist and then my right hand) and it was a disaster. When I was in shape I qualified near perfect and was shooting palm-sized groups at a fairly rapid pace. Today, geez, I was a mess...7 yards looked like 15, my trigger finger placement was all over, my stance felt wrong, etc etc.

Also, to answer TS's earlier preliminaries...I do have the requisite strength described earlier. My training has all come through my job from current and former special operations personnel, so I feel pretty confident that I'm working from a good base set of knowledge. I'm interested only in practical shooting (I hardly ever put the target farther than 10 yards). My goal is higher than civilian self-defense, but not quite a full military standard. I'm not going to be attacking anything, but I want to be able to pull my weight in the event that me or my element comes under attack while in the field and I want the guys I travel to be confident that I'm not a security liability. (Am I making a false distinction between offensive and defensive scenarios?)

Has anyone else ever had to rehab their skills after a long break? Was there a specific drill or routine that helped you or is it just about getting reps? I'm worried that I'm just going to reinforce a bunch of bad habits if I just try to "practice" myself back into shape. Any advice from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

[82ndtrooper]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Yes I could, especially since I made up the term.

It's simply jerking the trigger the same way everytime causing a "shot group" but not in the place the individual was intending. The shot group looks fine and no one would ever question the fact it was not where the individual was actually aiming.
A way to check if someone has indeed a controlled jerk is by using the "ball and dummy" drill.

I've seen it many times and in every case its a seasoned shooter.

Team Sergeant

Prior to actual tactical pistol training by professionals I was one of those "controlled jerkers" on a static paper target at 25 meters. My group was tight, but it was alway's high and left of the center of the B-27 target.

Certain professionals showed my the "thumbs forward" grip. This helped in of itself because it tends to allow the shooter, at least me, to have an index finger and a thumb directly on plane with the target. Next was proper follow through on the trigger and two sight's for every shot taken. The ball and dummy drill cured this.

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

[swatsurgeon]

I'm now 2 months after surgery on my right arm and have to wait one more month.......
TS whispering in my ear: DRY FIRE, again, and again, and again............

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by nmap

Thank you, Sir. I appreciate the excellent ideas.

Actually, I do a minimal amount of weight lifting - I go to a small gym and do 30 minutes of cardio workout and 10 minutes on a universal machine, 5 times per week. It's better than nothing, but not much.

Go three times a week instead and do 30 minutes on specific muscle groups using free weights and 30 minutes cardio to finish up.

It could look something like this:

Day 1: Chest / Shoulders & Triceps - Cardio

Day 2: Rest

Day 3: Legs / Abs - Cardio

Day 4: Rest

Day 5: Back / Biceps - Cardio

Day 6: Rest

Day 7: Go to church.

I can hold onto the firearm well enough (Glock 22, 155 gr. Federal Hydroshoks), and hit the target at usual civilian training distances of 15 yards or less - but the shots lack the precision I would like. I'm also unhappy with my speed and effectiveness when I try to do a double-tap.

Bring the distance back down to 7 yards until your accuracy improves. Stop doing "double-taps" and start doing "controlled pairs." The difference is that you don't pull the trigger on the second shot until you have a sight picture. Be precise and be smooth. Don't start doing controlled pairs until your single shots are hitting exactly where you want them to hit. Perfect your stance, grip, breathing, trigger manipulation (taking off slack), sight alignment, smooth trigger squeeze and follow-through.

Edit by Razor: Maybe your eyes are better than mine, but Navy on Black was pretty hard to read.

[JGarcia]

Has anyone here ever attended the US Army Marksmanship Units Close Quarters Marksmanship Course which is taught at Ft. Benning?

I have received the green light to get myself and as many of my NCO's as the school will accept through USAMU's course. Several people in my state are enamored with "Gunsite" and "Thunder Ranch" and our state is more than willing to send Soldiers to both. Fortunately for me it's not an either or situation, we can attend USAMU and Thunder Ranch (... I know, he's not Paul Howe or Don Hollenbaugh, but I don't have to pay for it, so why not go?)

If anyone has any feedback regarding the USAMU course, can you PM me with your comments please? Thank you very much.

[Smokin Joe]

I don't know shit about USAMU program but I have been to a gunsite class, know a few instructors from Thunder Ranch, and have had the privilege to have TS fix all my shooting problems.

My advise is go to every shoot school, you can get, you or your ppl into. Then when you think you got it. Go see Paul Howe or TS.

My point is every school is going (or is going to attempt to) teach you how to shoot, or something related to gunfighting. Some of it will be crap, some of it maybe worth your time to learn. You can forget the crap after the class. Once your shooting and moving like a modern day gunfighter. Go see Paul or TS to have them sharpen your skills to a Harsey edge.

If time (not money) is your factor don't screw around go see the Masters now!

Just my .02 cents.

[kgoerz]

Remember it's your training/Dime in these Shooting Schools. To many times I see people knocking the center out of their Target for an entire day. If your knocking out the X-Ring then speed yourself up. When you start throwing rounds out of the kill zone then slow back down.
Its not like your going to hang your Target up on your Refrigerator.....thou I have seen people do that.

[jbour13]

Yet another great thread by the members of PS.com.

I'm stocking up on ammo and saving my pennies to attend a 2 or 3 day course here in the local area.

Until then I'm on SwatSurgeon's training program........dry fire, dry fire, dry fire!

[triQshot]

Now I've read this thread, and I've noted alot of things that I will take with me, but I was wondering what "stance" do yall approve of the most?

a. Isosceles Stance

or

b. "Weaver" Stance

At the Academy they are teaching us the Isosceles Shooting Stance and are getting away from the "Weaver Stance." The reason they give us...is that during the weaver stance your ribs are open to fire from a suspect. They tell us that the Isosceles stance is better because your standing broad shoulder and your chest is covered.

The problem I see is movement, with the Isosceles Stance, your legs are "locked" and your off balance to a point. With the Weaver stance movement is easier and your balanced on your front foot.

What do you guys perfer when shooting the old six shooter?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by triQshot

Now I've read this thread, and I've noted alot of things that I will take with me, but I was wondering what "stance" do yall approve of the most?

a. Isosceles Stance

or

b. "Weaver" Stance

At the Academy they are teaching us the Isosceles Shooting Stance and are getting away from the "Weaver Stance." The reason they give us...is that during the weaver stance your ribs are open to fire from a suspect. They tell us that the Isosceles stance is better because your standing broad shoulder and your chest is covered.

The problem I see is movement, with the Isosceles Stance, your legs are "locked" and your off balance to a point. With the Weaver stance movement is easier and your balanced on your front foot.

What do you guys perfer when shooting the old six shooter?

triQshot,

Might I suggest you use the "search" button and input "Weaver Stance". You will find what you are looking for.....

But since I'm in a good mood and have had my morning cup of joe I'll answer your question.

No one in Special Forces uses the weaver stance. It's not been taught for decades. It went by way of the dodo just like point shooting and for good reason.

I'm sure its still being taught at many places across the country and at some of the "large" gun ranges/ranches run by folks old enough to be my grandfather.

Think about it, if I taught you one stance and one proper way of using a handgun you'd only be at my academy, course, range or ranch a few days. Now if I taught you all the styles, 99% of which are useless but kept you at my ranch, range or academy an extra three weeks filling your head with garbage I'd be that much richer......

If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit.

Team Sergeant

[triQshot]

Sorry TS, I used the search button after I posted, and you caught me, I was coming back to edit and clear everything out and put the reason for editing "Im a dumbass that didn't use the search button."

Thanks for the info TS, and thank for not wacking my head off.


During inservice in June the FI's are going to let us run some combat quals, and do our yearly quals on the FBI's Q targets. I've learned my lesson...search more carefully before posting.


thanks again