Sub sonic loads

[tinmanHRSO]

Originally Posted by 300LW

There is nothing wrong with building your own suppressor, as long as you first file an ATF Form 1. Keep in mind that any part of a suppressor is considered a registered part. You cannot make any extra baffles, wipes, tubes, etc. Follow the rules and stay within the law. Unless you have a full machine shop and extensive experience, though, it is probably better to buy one from a registered manufacturer.

I always understood that unless you possess a curent and valid ClassII manufacturers license along with an FFL it would be unlawful to manufacture any type of device which would lower firearm noise levels. Just my .02

Btw, I've been doing range evaluations using supressors manufactured by "Jet Suppressors" with 5.56, 7.62x39,51 and 54R, and Walther pistols in .22LR, 9mm and .45. Included in their waiver of liability form agreement there is a line which states that the disassembly of their suppressors beyond the levels necessary for maintenence will not only void the warranty but it's also a violation of NFA guidelines.

Trying to save a few bucks is never worth the risk of losing your freedom, the right to bear arms FOREVER, and the compromise of your personal safety from inexperience.

[tinmanHRSO]

Originally Posted by Daredevil63

I'm looking for some advice on reloading 5.56 sub-sonic ammo. Info such as bullet type and weight, powder type and amount, primers, and anything else that is necessary. I am aware that sub sonic 5.56 doesn't usually cycle and the risk of getting a sqiub or blow up the rifle itself. I have tried devoloping a load from the reseached I gathered at the time and the 1st load worked fine but the 2nd with a grain more powder costed me an upper receiver. I would like to try again but there is little margin for error and like to compare notes with someone else. If you do have some infomation but don't want to reveil because of the risk involved I understand. But feel free share any knowledge on the subject for it is not pacifically discussed in this forum. Thanks.

I used to bang my head against the wall curious to find the secret recipe for a great subsonic round which would still perform well. At least out to 200 meters or so. You'd have your kill and wth a good can, nobody would hear it. Well, I've never had any luck finding that golden bullet.

What I have discovered is that there are several very high quality suppressors out there which lower the sound levels of even the hottest rounds through rifles such as my 10.5" SBR to a level low enough to eliminate the need for hearing protection. The only true way to appreciate the effects is in person. Shoot without the can, and then with it. It's a difference that can't be reproduced by watching a video. Just last week I tested a 5" suppressor 1 3/4" thick for the 5.56x45 rifles. Mounted on my 10.5 SBR, and using full powered M855 SS109 rounds, the suppressor lower the sound level almost equal to a loud handclap. No need for plugs, and it performed just as well in full auto. If used in action, sure you can still hear it easily from your firing position, but if your target is several hundred meters away, even if those close by hear the shot, they'll never be able to identify where it came from because the explosion is now just a crack.

[HOLLiS]

Originally Posted by tinmanHRSO

I used to bang my head against the wall curious to find the secret recipe for a great subsonic round which would still perform well. At least out to 200 meters or so. You'd have your kill and wth a good can, nobody would hear it. Well, I've never had any luck finding that golden bullet.

What I have discovered is that there are several very high quality suppressors out there which lower the sound levels of even the hottest rounds through rifles such as my 10.5" SBR to a level low enough to eliminate the need for hearing protection. The only true way to appreciate the effects is in person. Shoot without the can, and then with it. It's a difference that can't be reproduced by watching a video. Just last week I tested a 5" suppressor 1 3/4" thick for the 5.56x45 rifles. Mounted on my 10.5 SBR, and using full powered M855 SS109 rounds, the suppressor lower the sound level almost equal to a loud handclap. No need for plugs, and it performed just as well in full auto. If used in action, sure you can still hear it easily from your firing position, but if your target is several hundred meters away, even if those close by hear the shot, they'll never be able to identify where it came from because the explosion is now just a crack.

Part of the problem is that sub sonic loads tend to use a heavier/longer projectile. That may require a different twist in rifling.

Sounds like in the above, you are getting a sonic crack.

Problem with Rifle rounds is that the cases generally have too much volume for the amount of powder required to make a sub sonic round. Insufficient powder load for case volume is very dangerous.

Pistols may naturally have sub sonic rounds, like the 147 Gr 9 mm.

For rifles, what I have seen is smaller case is used. Using say, a 7.62 x 39 would work, but rifles normally chambered in that caliber requires a lighter bullet.


Another aspect is one has to take into the account the round does not have as flat a trajectory as a normal rifle round. Range estimation is much more critical.


From what I have read hear and experience one of the biggest advantage of a suppressor is, it helps prevents hearing loss.

[tinmanHRSO]

Most people have the idea that suppressors are ineffective unless the noise is reduced to almost zero. What they don't consider is the fact that if the noies is dampened to the level of a loud handclap and a human target is engaged from more than 150-200 yds, the bullet impact is usually alot louder than the shot itself. And for others who may be in locations left or right of the shot trajectory who do hear the shot, it's rendered so faint that direction cannot be identified.

Not to mention the fact that using subsonic ammunition severely limits your range of effectiveness. A whisper quiet subsonic .308 has an effective range of only 150 yds! Using full power rounds, having the shots a bit louder at the shooting end puts you back on the 1000 yd lethal shot market.

Then there's nothing that eliminates muzzle flash like a sound suppressor. Especially when using the 5.56 which has a very high flash temp at around 1900 F.

I had the privelage of shooting several suppressed rifles and handguns just yesterday morning 06/15/08 at the test range located at the main HQ for a major suppressor manufacturer here in Texas. I won't mention which one so this won't sound like an advertisement! lol

The effectiveness of these suppressors when machined properly with titanium instead of heavy steel which is prone to deformation was amazing. Shooting full powered .308,.338 Laupa, and even .50BMG without any hearing protection and zero ear ringing, lol. Shooting steel was really strange because the bullet impacting the targets were much louder than the actual gunfire. No subsonics were ever used at all. Also, at this private firing range, the actual firing line is less than 150 yds from a major interstate road. Not one noise or gunfire compaint has ever been made in 3 years.

Of course, the firing line is positioned behind the storefront with shooters aiming away from the road and into a dirt berm for safety, but it was 50BMG being fired too!!! Some of the pics are below