Beretta M9

[Slater]

The following article is somewhat dated and was fished off the Net. It's an obviously pro-Beretta type doing a "shoot it 'til it breaks" endurance test. Any modern, quality handgun would probably have done as well, and one of my buddies (who's a 1911 fan) told me after reading the article that "Hell, your average 1911 could have passed that test without breaking ANY parts". So take it for what it's worth:




"The Beretta 92FS," by Christopher Bartocci...
...published in Krause Publications' Handguns 2001(13th Edition), states the following information:

"With the gun's major criticisms in mind, I wanted to see how the M9/92FS would stand up to a 20,500 round torture test using mostly +P and +P+ ammunition. I purchased a stock 92FS from a local gun distributor and made some calls for some high-power ammunition. The ammunition used in this test is as follows: 9X19mm (NATO, Parabellum/Luger) manufactured by Winchester/Olin Corporation.

Beretta U.S.A. claims their pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds and that it will function under the most adverse conditions. Beretta U.S.A. claims 'the average reliability of all M9s tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without stoppage.' The ammunition I chose was the hottest ammunition available and I would not recommend anyone put high round counts of +P+ ammunition through any alloy-frame pistol regardless of manufacturer.

The first thing I did was fire for out-of-the-box accuracy, I used the 115-grain +P+ ammunition and at 15 yards the 15-shot group measured 1.5 inches. I had nine magazines loaded up and someone loading magazines as I emptied them and, within 20 minutes, I fired 500 rounds with no malfunctions of any type...

The next day I began firing 2,000 rounds of the 127-grain +P+SXT, by far the hottest 9mm ammunition I have ever fired. There were no malfunctions of any type using this ammunition. Over the next 3 days I fired 8,000 rounds of 9mm NATO, the standard M882 Ball ammunition issued to U.S. military personnel. The M882 ball cartridge is rated as a +P cartridge by SAAMI specifications.

The barrel was cleaned every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds. It would take us 45 to 50 minutes to fire 1,000 rounds and, at times, the pistol would become too hot to handle. I fired 1,000 rounds of Winchester USA 115-grain 9mm ball with no problems and the pistol, after 11,500 rounds, was still delivering groups in the 1.5-inch range.

At this point, the pistol was totally disassembled and cleaned. Then I fired an additional 6,000 rounds of the 115-grain FMJ with only one malfunction. There was one failure to extract due to an under-powered cartridge, not the pistol.

After about 15,000 rounds I began to notice some pitting on the right wing of the locking block. I recommend changing this part when pitting is noted, but this was a torture test and we wanted to see how long the gun will last.

As of now 17,500 rounds have been fired and I headed back to the range to fire the remaining 3,000 rounds. Finally at round count 19,498, I had a locking block failure. The left wing of the locking block broke and the pistol's slide locked up. By pushing down on the broken wing with a drift punch, the action was freed and the pistol subsequently disassembled, revealing some minimal frame damage - but nothing that would affect the operation of the pistol. I changed the locking block and within 10 minutes I was back in action and concluded the test with no other malfunctions. The last 15 rounds were fired for accuracy; the group measured about 1.75 inches at 15 yards. The accuracy had hardly changed at all.

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450 handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could you ask?'

I feel very few pistols will ever see this round count - except for a military pistol. For many years I have heard people claim the Beretta M9/92FS was a fragile gun because of those early, isolated incidents. Following this torture test, I know this gun is far from fragile! There is no question in my mind the pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds; I would not be surprised to see it last 50,000 rounds. The Beretta M9/92FS is, in my opinion, one of the most reliable firearms ever produced - and this test proved it."

[The Reaper]

1. A Beretta 92FS is NOT an M-9, no matter how much it looks like it.

2. The military was no longer procuring M-9s as of 2001 AFAIK, and we have to live with the older M-9s that Beretta sold the USG, with all of their defects. I would expect the version produced after 20 years of production to be better.

3. The hottest 9mm ammo I have ever seen was some steel jacketed SMG ammo. The Israeli TZZ was next. Nevertheless, the M882 Ball is what is issued, and what should have been shot.

4. I have personally handled broken parts from M-9s with less than 1,000 rounds of M882 Ball through them. To wit, broken slides and barrels with sheared locking lugs. Not heard from someone, not read, personally saw it and put my hands on them.

5. Finally, you will have to search hard to find an article in any way critical of a gun that appears in a gun mag with paid advertising. I had a Remington rep tell me recently that the gun rags would never say a bad word no matter how flawed the weapon or ammo. The article might get rewritten by the editor or tossed into the trash can, but would never make it to publication.

HTH.

TR

[Slater]

Reaper;

I was under the impression that the 92FS and M9 were essentially identical (at least from a side-by-side examination). What are the differences? Is one better made than the other?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Slater

Reaper;

I was under the impression that the 92FS and M9 were essentially identical (at least from a side-by-side examination). What are the differences? Is one better made than the other?

One is made for the government, the other is a newer model made for civilians with lawyers.

TR

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

One is made for the government, the other is a newer model made for civilians with lawyers.

TR

I like that one TR!

[82ndtrooper]

Point # 5 on The Reapers should be a clue to anyone that still reads or subcribes to "Combat Tactics" "Combat Handguns" "Swat Weapons" etc, etc, etc.

I've discontinued my only subscription this year. Most if not all articles are widely open to interpretation by the personal shooter and let's not forget that advertising dollars have corrupted what was at one time some decent mags for keeping up on new pistols, ammo, rifles and gear.

Surefire now has "Combat Tactics" It's expensive, like $8.99 per issue, and you'll alway's find that 20 pages are directed at "White Light" issues, tactics, and what light to purchase for your specific use. There's more advertisments than dialogue. I agree, Surefire makes the best lights, but I dont need to pay $8.99 to be reminded of it.

[Slater]

Beretta is evidently still selling M9's to the Military, although in the "M9A1" variant (basically a standard M9 with an accessory rail, it seems). The Marines ordered a bunch last year.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Slater

Beretta is evidently still selling M9's to the Military, although in the "M9A1" variant (basically a standard M9 with an accessory rail, it seems). The Marines ordered a bunch last year.

Congratulations.

Have we flogged this to your satisfaction yet?

TR

[USMS8504]

You asked for SF opinions, you got some very qualified opinions. You were not happy with them so you keep trying to justify your purchase to yourself. What more do you want?

You brought in the Marines, so here I am. I can tell you from 5 years of ground pounding in the Corps, I never met a Marine that would carry the M9 by choice. By Beretta's own press release, they state they sold 7,500 guns to the Corps. That does not sound like a Corps wide distribution. That sounds like they needed an additional amount to suppliment the current inventory that is going to the melting pot due to failures until the joint pistol contract is kick started again.

http://www.berettausa.com/media/download.cfm?d_id=139

Additionally in the press release they state that they have sold over 10,000 of the M9A1s in 2006 between the Marines and Law enforcement. That means, minus the Marines, they have sold 2,500 to law enforcement. Compare that number to Glock or Sig. I can tell you that my small agency has bought more than that number from Glock. And we are one of the smallest Federal Agencies.

Edit Add:
I hate not saying anything good about a topic to give both sides. I got very good at IA drills with the M9.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

Point # 5 on The Reapers should be a clue to anyone that still reads or subcribes to "Combat Tactics" "Combat Handguns" "Swat Weapons" etc, etc, etc.

I've discontinued my only subscription this year. Most if not all articles are widely open to interpretation by the personal shooter and let's not forget that advertising dollars have corrupted what was at one time some decent mags for keeping up on new pistols, ammo, rifles and gear.

Surefire now has "Combat Tactics" It's expensive, like $8.99 per issue, and you'll alway's find that 20 pages are directed at "White Light" issues, tactics, and what light to purchase for your specific use. There's more advertisments than dialogue. I agree, Surefire makes the best lights, but I dont need to pay $8.99 to be reminded of it.

Glad to see you're off the "koolaid".

Funny how most of the people writing the "combat tactics" have never actually been in combat.........

Team Sergeant

[82ndtrooper]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Glad to see you're off the "koolaid".

Funny how most of the people writing the "combat tactics" have never actually been in combat.........

Team Sergeant

I've read every single one of your posts. I don't need a publication from the grocery store anymore.

[RTK]

Originally Posted by Slater

Beretta is evidently still selling M9's to the Military, although in the "M9A1" variant (basically a standard M9 with an accessory rail, it seems). The Marines ordered a bunch last year.

If you're looking for validation or consent that you made the right decision to buy a Beretta, then you made the wrong decision to come here. You bought a pistol. Congratulations. Thanks for letting us know.

I agree with TR; this horse is dead.

[Kyobanim]

No sense in watching the innards spill out of the horse.