Barry Bonds Hits 754 - Page 2

Hostile0311 · 07-30-2007, 05:33

Off the 'Bonds' topic a bit but I have to agree with 82ntrooper that Cal Ripken Jr. was a helluva ball player who set a prime example of what a great player is made of. If I had to choose a player my son could emmulate it would be Ripken. He was a great all around player and his accomplishments speak for themselves. He never bragged or boasted but instead let his actions do the talking on the field. Even off the field he gives amply to the youth and various other organizations. I think his record will stand the test of time because there is simply no one out there this day in age of that type caliber IMHO. Maybe we will be fortunate enough one day to see a great player like that break a meaningful record instead of someone like Bonds taking the 'cheaters' way out.

**The Reaper** · 07-30-2007, 07:34

Ripken was The Man, and is my favorite modern era player, though Pete Rose looked pretty dedicated too, till we found out about the gambling. Ripken reminds me of the player whose record he broke.

I love the fact that Ruth did what he did as a pitcher and as a hitter, despite horrible training practices, terrible conditioning, and a serious party lifestyle. He was an extraordinarily talented man who did things large and his way, but loved kids, didn't mind the media and the attention, and gave back to the community. I do not think he has a modern era counterpart, and would probably be the antithesis of Bonds.

As noted, MLB failed when the players started using juice, the league did little to stop it, and the players union opposed testing. Now there is taking care of your members.

TR

echoes · 07-30-2007, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile0311

Bonds is a disgrace to the game of baseball. His less than stellar attitude and getting ahead by impure means is a blemish on one of the greatest games ever played. He sets a bad example for the youth of today. Aaron, Maris, Ruth and even the Mick were all honorable men and played for the the love of the game and not necessarily the $.

Gents, if I may...

I stayed at a hospital recently with a family member, that overlooked a city park ball-field. Every night during that week I would watch out the room window at the baseball field...and every night it was packed. Not with Pro players, or even adults...but with little kids.

It reminded me of being young and growing up sitting on the metal bleachers, eating cracker-jack, and waiting for my brother's team to get a hit, or take the field. Win or lose, it was just great to see him and his teammates grin from ear-to-ear when something great happened...like a trip to first!

It reminded me that no matter how distorted the "hero's" rap sheets, little boys will don the glove and bat, and face down the other team...if for no other reason than to be part of the Game.

Bascially, I think all those Pro's should remember what the Game was originally about...not money or fame, but of being part of a Team.

Just my small little .02.

Holly

brandonm · 07-30-2007, 11:50

The early - mid 90's were a great time for baseball. Young Griffey Jr., Kirby Puckett, Wade Boggs, Cal Ripken Jr., Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemens, so many... most recent golden era of baseball anyone?

QRQ 30 · 07-30-2007, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdb23

Yeah, most guys put on 35 pounds of raw muscle in their late 30's and early 40's. Happens to all of us....

Check out the before and after pics...

He's a cheater in my book. Gets no pat on the back from me.

I did!!

At least the 35 pounds.
Sorry to always be the guy on the other side of the fence but, IMO no amount of muscle, or other drugs improves the hand and eye coordination to put the wood on the ball. Perhaps he is also not so charismatic (hows that for avoiding a 5 letter p word?) but that still doesn't eleimnate the fact that he did it.

The way athletes are today, do they even bother naming an All-American Team anymore? IIRC Bob Hope used to take them on a tour. Athletes are not the role models the used to be. While teaching I used to use Pete Rose as a role model - not today!!

Spurier and the USC Gamecocks could have a great football team if he could keep them out of jail.

What a shame that Tommy Bowden of Clemson thought it worth saying that he had a good summer because none of his player made the news this year.

**The Reaper** · 07-30-2007, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

I did!!

At least the 35 pounds.
Sorry to always be the guy on the other side of the fence but, IMO no amount of muscle, or other drugs improves the hand and eye coordination to put the wood on the ball.(

No, but the power of steroids is the difference between a .300 hitter with 60 HRs per season, and a .270 hitter with 10 HRs.

Any ball hit over the fence is safe from fielding or errors.

TR

QRQ 30 · 07-30-2007, 14:40

I think the number is empirical. He either has X# HRs or not.

On the other side I have heard some very valid points for excluding him from the Hall of Fame. - based upon lack luster performance. He is really a lack luster ball player and his hitting during crucial events is actually sub-standard. He is no Mr. October

.

brandonm · 07-30-2007, 14:54

I disagree to the lack luster ball player comment.

Since 1990 Barry Bonds has only had one season with an OBP (On Base Percentage) of less than 400.

Before his 73 homer season he was consistent 35-45 homer threat.

Every season since 1990 he has had a slugging percentage of over .500 and many of those were .600 and .700 slugging percentage.

Sure Bonds had a 73 home run season, but if you look through most great players, they have one season that is by and far better than any other season they had in their career. After he hit the 73 home runs, his stats fell more in line with what he was normally producing in his career.

I don't know if he took steroids or not, but I think a lot of people automatically assume he did because of his lackluster PR performance and his 73 home run season without giving the guy a fair review.

Before he was hit with the steroid scandal, Bonds was well on his way to a hall of fame career and to be considered one of the greats of all time. Only player ever to have 500 stolen bases and 500 home runs - how's that for a stat? Guess what, he reached that before any accusations of steroids came about.

I'm not going to agree or disagree with any claims that he took steroids, but I think a deeper look into his past would make some nay sayers think twice.

QRQ 30 · 07-30-2007, 15:00

That's what I get for listening to sports casters. I forgot they are also part of the MSM.

NousDefionsDoc · 07-30-2007, 15:25

No love for Biggio? I agree about Ripken.

On Bonds - he's not a nice guy. But then he's not paid to be nice. Look at the expectations he came in under. Godfather Willie Mays. Father Bobby. McCovey in there too. Imagine the pressure.

A lot of them cheat. Sosa corked his bat. Cobb sharpened his spikes. You guys don't think The Babe would have juiced?

Mantle wasn't a saint either.

As for the asterisk - it was shit when they did it to Maris. He didn't decide how long the season would be. I don't care if they do it to Bonds or not. He has played within the system well enough that they haven't booted him.

IF they want to kick him out, they should do it. If they want to let him play, it should stand clean.

They are baseball players, not moral not role models.

Having said that, I would take Ripken or Biggio over any of the "cheaters". You gotta love any guy that will lead the league in HBP and games played.

ktek01 · 07-30-2007, 17:53

75,000 people showed up to see Cal Ripken Jr get inducted into the Hall of Fame. I wonder how many would show up for Bonds, if he ever gets in. Im sure Arod will have broken his home run record by the time he is even eligible.

mdb23 · 07-30-2007, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

No, but the power of steroids is the difference between a .300 hitter with 60 HRs per season, and a .270 hitter with 10 HRs.

Any ball hit over the fence is safe from fielding or errors.

TR

Exactly. Having played from age 5 up through the collegiate level, I learned that baseball can be a game of inches.

Nobody is denying that Bonds was a great player, and that no amount of muscle can give you the ability to put the bat on the ball, but the steriods push that 315 foot fly out to left center over the fence....... they make the ground ball shoot through the infield before before a shortstop can get to it, and they muscle that check swing, off the hands, blooper over the shortstop instead of it being an infield pop out.

Like I said, Bonds was very good, great even, but I do not for one minute believe that you go from averaging 19 -25 home runs a year for the first 6 or 7 years of your career, with 34 being your "best" year, to averaging 50 a year once you hit 38 years old...... that isn't the way the game works..... your hand and eye coordination is worse in your late 30's, not better, your reaction times are slower, your stats go down...........

The dude somhow hit his "prime" at 40, and I'm not buying it.

He's a cheater. I won't watch him. I don't respect his record.

Just the opinion of an old broken down catcher who loves the game.

dennisw · 07-30-2007, 18:27

My brother-in-law, rest his soul, played against Barry in college. He said some picture on his team was a fire baller and had his dad in the stands. When Barry came up the old man was screaming at his son, "Throw it by him, throw it by him." He said the picture rared back and fired the ball. He said Bonds hit it so hard and far, it probably still going. lol.

I believe if you kicked out every player who ever tried any form of juice, steroids etc., you probably couldn't field a professional team in any sport. By the way, the crazy man Canseco said he's going to spill the beans on Arod in his next book.

Would you feel as strongly about a guy on your team taking steroids as you would a professional baseball player? If not, why not?

NousDefionsDoc · 07-30-2007, 18:54

You guys do understand that steroids aren't magic right? You still have to do the work.

x-factor · 07-30-2007, 21:14

For a long time I gave Bonds the benefit of the doubt. The guy has incredible genetics and a lifetime of developing a great swing...why couldn't he (given unlimited access to every modern physical training method) have put on the muscle and hit a ton of HRs? Since then though, the evidence that has surfaced has been pretty undeniable.

Most major league players don't find their power until their fourth or fifth year. From Bonds' fifth season (1990) to the year before he hit 73 (2000) he averaged 37 HRs a year and won 3 MVPs (to say nothing of all his other stats). The guy was a Hall of Famer without the steroids.

Really the 73 HR season was the only aberration. After that he went back to hitting in the 40s which (along with his other numbers) is more or less consistent with his career. The steroids will probably end up costing him longevity (he missed almost the entire 2005 season and he's been injury prone ever since) because they're notoriously hard on joints. Even if he hadn't had the 73HR season he probably would have broken Aaron's record anyway, either this season or the next.

Basically the guy sacrificed his reputation as the best slugger of his generation for one thing: the single season HR record.

Pure arrogance.