Inside The Green Berets on NGC

[The Reaper]

Exactly, Sir.

After seeing it, I could put together a pretty good list of strengths and weaknesses of SF in OEF, as well as a list of Dos and Don'ts for fighting them. Too many TTPs revealed.

I think they would have beeen better off sticking with the human interest side of the story, and omitting all of the operational details till the war was over.

TR

[Shar]

Haven't seen it yet, but my dad called last night after he watched it and had the same feelings expressed above about OPSEC.

I'm confused about all of this... Would this have needed a clearance review by the Army prior to air? Or, is it that once the press is let in - they have free reign unless they are asked and comply with certain requests to not say or film certain things? I don't like the idea that someone else who doesn't understand OPSEC gets the final decision on what to show or not show or say/not say. Having been a part of the 10th MTN DIV family, there is no forgiveness for Geraldo Rivera after his stunt in Iraq a few years ago. The press isn't exactly objective when it comes to security. I get that the Army doesn't necessarily have a very tight leash on the embedded press because they pop off at a moment's notice, but in a case like this - don't they (shouldn't they) get some kind of review?

[Gypsy]

I have to say I was very surprised at several things I saw.

[blue02hd]

Shar,

To answer your question, "Isn't there a review?" Yes,, there is a review. Every frame of film is reviewed by the respective POA's , but it may be difficult for us Arm Chair Generals to second guess why certain things were aired and other things were not.

Having experienced Discovery Channel embeds (personally assigned to me while I was working in theater), I promise you there was much more film that was cut than was aired. Much like any other directive, once an order is given to that ODA, TM SGT, and or TM LDR, there is very little that can be done but move out and draw fire. The team had to balance the burden the mission along with the directive to please highers and "give a good showing". Don't forget the added problem of security on the additional "VIP's" that are taking up seats that more rifles could have filled. I for one feel the coverage was positive in light, and really did credit to the guys over there atm. They represented us well, even if the show invited criticism from arm chair quarter backs. On that note, all I can say is,"if you haven't worn those shoes, don't even pretend to point out how you would have done it better".

I remember feeling the same way after watching the SERE footage air a few years back. Great coverage, but I personally wish that it was never aired.
This is the same. Publicity versus Need to know?? But, if we HAVE to allow coverage, and this is an arguement only the few that are higher up the totem pole could explain, then atleast we can hope that it is positive coverage. When I compare this show to the show that covered the 19th Group in Afghanistan, ( I actually threw a beer at my TV) I am relieved. Much better presentation this time.

But hell, I served in 3rd Group, so I may be slightly partial,,,,

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

[QUOTE=blue02hd]even if the show invited criticism from arm chair quarter backs. On that note, all I can say is,"if you haven't worn those shoes, don't even pretend to point out how you would have done it better". IQUOTE]

You have someone in mind for this quote, or is this just a general statement?

[Scimitar]

From an 18X point of view it was very enlightening to see a team at work, more importantly a lot of what I have been told made more sense.

Really enjoyed seeing the professionalism.

My Father spoke of how combat is actually a lot 'slower' than you'd think from watching the movies. He'd say its a thinking mans game that you actually have more time then you'd think upon contact.

This made sense to me as I saw the ODA, never flustered, never in a rush, almost relaxed it would seem (in reality their all ready to kill at a moments notice I'm guessing).

But I do agree from a OPSPEC point of view, not that I know anything much about OPSPEC, but it seemed everything I learned is something the enemy could learn. But the guys up stairs had a good reason I'm sure.

Does SF need to increase brand value some what to assist with force increase goals?

Otherwise over all it impressed the hell out of me and just made me want it more and gave me a desire to get in and get on a team ASAP so as to take as much weight as I could off the guys already in.

I was surprised how much the casualties racked me up. Obviously didn't know any of those brave brave guys, but it just made me pissed off at the cowardice and more resolved to send prayers up for all SF out there until I can join in to take a load.

[Pete]

[QUOTE=Jack Moroney]

Originally Posted by blue02hd

even if the show invited criticism from arm chair quarter backs. On that note, all I can say is,"if you haven't worn those shoes, don't even pretend to point out how you would have done it better". IQUOTE]

You have someone in mind for this quote, or is this just a general statement?

I would say it was aimed at some people in a general way. The same way my post was a little above it.

This is a well managed site but on some others the "straphangers" like to get the feel for how the wind is blowing on a subject and then pile on with their 20/20 Hind Sight about they could have/would have done it different.

I would say right now this thread is pretty subdued. I think those that "walked the walk" winced a bit during the show and the rest are waiting.

Jut my opinion of course.

Pete

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

Does SF need to increase brand value some what to assist with force increase goals?

maybe i'm out of my lane, but my suspicion is that at this point in your career, the 25 meter target is your friend...we have folks that worry about such issues, or at least, so i am told...

[Scimitar]

Sorry lksteve,

That was more of a "Could this be a reason behind why the brass allowed it" statement.

Not an "I think they need to do it this way" statement

Sorry for any ambiguity

[blue02hd]

[QUOTE=Jack Moroney]

Originally Posted by blue02hd

even if the show invited criticism from arm chair quarter backs. On that note, all I can say is,"if you haven't worn those shoes, don't even pretend to point out how you would have done it better". IQUOTE]

You have someone in mind for this quote, or is this just a general statement?

Sir, this was intended as a completely general statement.

The discussion is wide open about why access was given and if the footage was reviewed. In either event, the ODA had no choice in the matter, just as I had no choice . The media is another 500 pound gorrilla that ODA's, and the deployed military are now having to face. Much like working with village elders, serving on a team, or losing a brother, embeds represent "shoes" that many have not worn.

This was on my mind.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

[QUOTE=blue02hd]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Sir, this was intended as a completely general statement.

The discussion is wide open about why access was given and if the footage was reviewed. In either event, the ODA had no choice in the matter, just as I had no choice . The media is another 500 pound gorilla that ODA's, and the deployed military are now having to face. Much like working with village elders, serving on a team, or losing a brother, embeds represent "shoes" that many have not worn.

This was on my mind.

I understand and concur, however I am sorry that things seemed to have changed a bit since I was little. Perhaps it is a sign of the times with the ability of MSM to influence actions and play both the inadvertant and deliberate psyop card. I refused embeds, I also sent the National Geographic folks packing. I learned my lesson the hard way with a reporter from the Cleveland Plain Dealer when he was deposited on us with a resupply bird. We had a long hard talk about what was printable and what was not, that he could not accompany us on combat operations, but he would be given "free" access to local actions with specific guidelines and one of us would always be with him. He was not happy, but accepted the ground rules and promised that we would see what he had before he left, minus the photographs because our dark room ability was not as good as his. When we got the final two weekend spreads from the states, while it was not bad it, was not what we had blessed. In short he put a lot of us at risk. The next time we had a "visitor" in bound I worked worked the AO from one of my outposts using white phosphorous 60mm mortar rounds and let them draw the conclusion that we were taking fire. The airforce deemed it too risky for to land their C-7A. Now I fully understand that this is a different time and place, and that there is pressure from the command with specifics as to what you will and will not do, however if that is indeed the position that is forced upon the troops today then I would never make it in today's setting as the day that a commander on the ground does not have a choice in this matter is the day that I would have to hang up my ruck. Come to think of it, as I reflect back a tad, I guess it is a miracle that I ever progressed beyond the grade of 03.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

Come to think of it, as I reflect back a tad, I guess it is a miracle that I ever progressed beyond the grade of 03.

Well, if don't mind taking a reduction in rank too come back in....I'll fill one of your E/D/F slots?

Stay safe.

[x SF med]

I'll join up in a B or D slot, if the COL needs guys on his team.

[SF18C]

Can I be the Charlie....PLEASE?!?!

I know how to do hand receipts, pack the ISU-90 and everything!

[7624U]

Originally Posted by Pete

This is a well managed site but on some others the "straphangers" like to get the feel for how the wind is blowing on a subject and then pile on with their 20/20 Hind Sight about they could have/would have done it different.

I would say right now this thread is pretty subdued. I think those that "walked the walk" winced a bit during the show and the rest are waiting.

Just my opinion of course.

Pete

(I would have done it different )

But only because we all have seen different things happen, IE Experience's
I like Oranges, you like Apples.
Dont matter as long as the job gets done.