My first Ruck woes

[Scimitar]

I once ran 18 miles, in full combat gear in a thunderstorm in under 2.5 hours. Jungle boots and Army socks. When I was finished I rang my socks out in blood, yes blood, I did complete the mission.

8:20 min miles with around 100+ lbs plus rain water for 18 miles.

OK......I'll be honest here......I'm impressed.



(and here I am thinking 12 miles in 180min is pretty good)
(give me a minutes while I open up my personal goals document and make some changes )

[Scimitar]

Damn it!

Just when I was getting with in a ball park of my goal, Team Sergeant goes and change the goal posts.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

8:20 min miles with around 100+ lbs plus rain water for 18 miles.

It was not over 100 lbs... It was 18 miles, it was raining cats and dogs.
I did ring my socks out in blood. The medic that treated me and sent me home was killed in Desert Storm.

Team Sergeant

[Scimitar]

My apologies for the assumption Team Sergeant,

My understanding is that at SFAS we are carrying a total of 95lbs +- above standard PT gear (Shorts / Shoes / Tshirt)

Ruck + Weight = 5 + 55 (+-)
Loaded M16A2 = 9
Loaded LBE = 20 +- (water ammo etc)
Boots, BDUs, assorted battle rattle = 5

TOTAL = 94

Assumed similar in your situation.

Still blown away by time, back in my lane.

out

[one-zero]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

.....The medic that treated me and sent me home was killed in Desert Storm.

Team Sergeant

TS;
Eloy or Otto I presume, it was a bad night. Been a long time since then...RIP guys.

[Daver]

If I confused anybody regarding boot styles maybe this will clear things up...
If you come to SFAS, we will check your boots..if you have any boot that looks, sounds, acts, or feels like a tennis shoe, resembles a Hi-tech, Oakley, Adidas, or anything close...we will not allow you to use them....if you spend lots of $$$$$ having a high speed sole put on your boots, it better not change the make up to be like a tennis shoe style.....we will confiscate them and you will have to borrow boots from your buddies.... BLUF...don't try to get over..wear an approved Army issue boot...bring 2 pair of well broken in boots...SFAS is NOT the place to break them in, and toughen your feet up before you come here. You will get blisters.... you will ruck long distances with heavy stuff.... and you will carry even more heavy stuff in team week...all the SFAS cadre know the tricks and you aren't going to fool anybody...we've heard every reason, excuse, justification there is.
Here is the SFAS packing list that was put out NOV 2006...pay attention to Note #3....http://www.bragg.army.mil/specialfor...ing%20List.doc

....do the best you can!

[Scimitar]

Hello Daver,

My father was a Platoon Commander in VN, we were talking about Land Nav and equipment etc. He swears by using a Sheep Counter, you may call it a people counter.

Little contraption that he'd strap to his M16 and helped him keep counter while very Dick and Harry where talking to him. You click the button and the mechanism would turn over.

Having just done some night Land Nav yesterday, I can see why it would be invaluable.

Here’s a bad example of one.
http://www.amazon.com/SSG-Tally-Coun.../dp/B0000BYSQN

Before I go out and spend $50 on a solid steel silent one, I thought I'd ask weather there was a chance it would be allowed, or as I ship in 6 weeks might just be a waste of money and go with the beads instead.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Scimitar

[The Reaper]

Guys I would listen to Daver he knows what he is talking about.

jrome, you can chalk this up as a learning experience. Everyone will be issued boots at Basic (which WILL be authorized for wear) and should clearly have more than ample time to break them in at Basic, AIT, Airborne, SFPC, etc. BEFORE arriving at lovely Camp MacKall, NC.

And as I have posted here a whole lot of times for some of you other guys...

Stop trying to get over or be cool or different, or whatever you use as the rationale, AND JUST USE WHAT THE LIST SAYS AND BRING NOTHING ELSE.

As bad as some boots suck, and as painful as it is to break in a new pair, can you imagine going home because your boots did not pass shakedown or having to wear one pair that were a size or more off for the entire time?

The instructions really aren't that complicated, it sort of says something about your intelligence, comprehension, and ability to follow simple instructions if you screw it up.

TR

[Scimitar]

Sorry Folks,

Didn't actually read the list in full before previous post.

Things like

this

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE MINIMUM REQUIRED ITEMS TO BRING TO SFAS. NO EXCEPTIONS AND NO SUBSTITUTIONS.

and this

ANYTHING NOT LISTED HERE IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR USE AT SFAS

Answer my question.

Thank you

out

[The Reaper]

Damn son.

Why don't you quit digging, sit down, stop assuming and calculating, and STFU for a while? Plenty here to read, you would probably learn a lot more that way.

In fact, if you had read the stickies, like we ask everyone to, you would have found the very same packing list upon arrival here.

Don't post again for a week.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally Posted by pegasus

That's a qualifying pace for the Boston marathon !!

Nobody chases those people.



Jrome - the Team

Team - Jrome.

Originally Posted by lksteve

you seem surprised...

Awed....

approx 8 minute mile in full combat gear, in the rain, questionable terrain, jungle boots plus some extra weight vs controlled environment, water stops, light gear, no extra weight, not even hydration systems and running shoes etc.....
....well....damn.

Sorry for the hijack.

[Team Sergeant]

Let’s keep this in perspective, just for the record I didn’t finish first. And while this may be an awe inspiring feat for civilians, it is not for Special Forces soldiers. I will not publish exactly what it weighed as someone on here may want to some day attempt it themselves. I did have an experienced mentor as my second "Team Sergeant" was a 6’10 Norwegian that goes by the name "Van".

One-Zero, yes it was "Rod" that checked me out and sent me home. Told me to stop by the store on the way, purchase lots of beer and some food for a week, take my shoes and socks off and keep them off and not to return to work for 10 days.

Jrome this is pretty standard stuff for Special Forces soldiers. It’s a mixture of physical and mental toughness and if you do not have both you and many others will never make it into our ranks. If you are forced to search for your "Happy Place" over a 4 mile ruck with 30 lbs you might want to think about joining the Air Force instead.

Scimitar,
I do not advocate that "new guys" try to match this level of training, not at least until they are asked to "step up to the plate". Stick with what Warrior Mentor wrote in his book and the SFAS prep guidelines.

Team Sergeant

[HOLLiS]

I believe I have mentioned this before. When I had my business, Mountaineering, I learned to be a boot fitter. Having been a boot fitter, I fell some sort of complusiveness to write this. Hope it helps some one to avoid feet problems.


Part of the problem is how our feet are designed and the changes in dimension they go through during a stride. Boot manufactures can not make a boot for the general population that works 100%. Each person foot can be very unique in that how it needs to become stabilized in the boot. Blisters are a cause of friction from movement in side the boot. Stabilizing the foot will reduce or eliminate blisters.

A stabilized foot will not pronate more than 1/4 of a size. Non-stabilized feet can pronate up to 3 sizes or more. The best size to buy a boot is your Non-weighted foot length. Then the foot is stabilized by a food bed to prevent pronation. It may be a "trim to fit" or a custom molded insole. Trim to fit, works for people whose feet do no pronate more than 1/2 size.

Generally to allow for pronation, people will buy boots that are too large for their foot. The boot does not support the foot adequately, allowing for movement.

Other issues on boot construction is volume. Manufacturers tend to make boot with a little more than the average in volume. People with bony feet will need to have the volume of the boot reduced to cut down on movement from the larger cavity their foot is in.

The most critical measurement is Arch length. The ball of your foot needs to fit where the widest part of the boot is. If your foot is a 9 1/2 and you buy a 10 1/2 boot the ball of foot will fit behind the widest part of the boot.

A well fitting boot should fit snug with little to no movement.

Good socks help too. Also it is desirable to buy the boot with the socks that you are going to be wearing in those boots. Sock thickness will effect volume. Sock construction is also important as with the material they are made out of.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

I believe I have mentioned this before. When I had my business, Mountaineering, I learned to be a boot fitter. Having been a boot fitter, I fell some sort of complusiveness to write this. Hope it helps some one to avoid feet problems.


Part of the problem is how our feet are designed and the changes in dimension they go through during a stride. Boot manufactures can not make a boot for the general population that works 100%. Each person foot can be very unique in that how it needs to become stabilized in the boot. Blisters are a cause of friction from movement in side the boot. Stabilizing the foot will reduce or eliminate blisters.

A stabilized foot will not pronate more than 1/4 of a size. Non-stabilized feet can pronate up to 3 sizes or more. The best size to buy a boot is your Non-weighted foot length. Then the foot is stabilized by a food bed to prevent pronation. It may be a "trim to fit" or a custom molded insole. Trim to fit, works for people whose feet do no pronate more than 1/2 size.

Generally to allow for pronation, people will buy boots that are too large for their foot. The boot does not support the foot adequately, allowing for movement.

Other issues on boot construction is volume. Manufacturers tend to make boot with a little more than the average in volume. People with bony feet will need to have the volume of the boot reduced to cut down on movement from the larger cavity their foot is in.

The most critical measurement is Arch length. The ball of your foot needs to fit where the widest part of the boot is. If your foot is a 9 1/2 and you buy a 10 1/2 boot the ball of foot will fit behind the widest part of the boot.

A well fitting boot should fit snug with little to no movement.

Good socks help too. Also it is desirable to buy the boot with the socks that you are going to be wearing in those boots. Sock thickness will effect volume. Sock construction is also important as with the material they are made out of.

Great advice for people who are free to choose their footgear.

Might even be an option for people who have already been selected, and certainly for civilians or other people who do not have UNIFORM requirements.

Those of you prepping for SFAS make sure that both pairs of your ISSUE boots fit properly, have good insoles, are broken in well for your foot, and that you have nearly new ISSUE socks. It is okay to have a favorite pair, but make sure that both pair are equally well fitted and broken in. I have seen plenty of studs on the last day with Bozo boots taped together after the uppers separated completely from the lowers. I would suppose that minor mods like removal of heel cups or toe caps from, an ISSUE boot would be okay, but if you have ripple soles, hospital soles, running shoe soles, etc., they will likely be rejected. Since the List didn't specify ISSUE insoles and laces, I would look for a good pair of Superfeet or SOLE Footbeds and some comfortable, durable black laces that look issue. Bring extra laces as well.

We do not want to hear people commenting that they slipped by and got through the course with non-issue boots. The rules are clear. If the CIF didn't issue it to you, it really isn't ISSUE. If you get caught and returned to your unit or have to borrow an ISSUE pair that are two sizes too small, you will be paying the price for FTFSI.

The Military Clothing Sales Stores sell many things that are not ISSUE, never mind the local surplus store. One of the worst was the Korean and then Chinese knock-offs of the ISSUE jungle boot. Most would not last through the break-in period.

Save the Gucci gear for civilian wear and deployments to remote areas.

Bring ISSUE gear to SFAS.

Are you guys getting the hint here? ISSUE means just that!

TR