illegal immigration

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Hard to count, but I am sure at least hundreds, if not thousands. I live in Southern California -- illegal immigrants are everywhere.

I have been to your house too, amigo, and I find this very hard to believe, unless they are living in servant's quarters nearby or the country club provides lodging to laborers.

TR

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

xenophobia is not a word Special Forces soldiers use.

Isn't that the truth. Many of us have spent time in other parts of the world, sometimes legally and sometimes other than "legally", working with folks who have the balls to stay in their own country and fight to make their country a better place to live or die trying. We don't often get a chance to work with those who decided to flee and live elsewhere illegally to enjoy the freedoms others have worked and died to maintain as that country's legal resident. They probably are productive, they probably are nice folks, but they are also cowards, leeches, and illegal. Just a perspective from an old guy.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I have been to your house too, amigo, and I find this very hard to believe, unless they are living in servant's quarters nearby or the country club provides lodging to laborers.

TR

Come back, and let's survey the area within a one-mile radius. Every day, there are men who I believe to be illegal immigrants selling fruit on my street less than a couple of hundred yards from my house. There are homeless guys sleeping most nights less than a thousand yards from my house. There is a relatively low-income neighborhood less than a quarter-mile from my house where there are drive-by shootings and stores where few customers speak English.

[The Reaper]

One of the first questions to be asked has to be, why are there not more good employment opportunities in Mexico, a major exporter of oil?

It isn't like Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are significantly better places geographically than the Mexican states a few meters south. Why are our states prosperous, and theirs less so?

Perhaps corruption and inequitable distribution of wealth at home are the reasons. Can we help fix that?

What is the Mexican government doing to remedy this problem, while we absorb huge numbers of their unemployed/underemployed and provide social services to them at little or no cost? Is this supposed to be a permanent assistance program? When do the American citizens who are here legally get to vote on this plan?

Would the government of Mexico continue to have the lax attitude and overt enablement of the border crossers if we were returning well-armed and well-trained anti-government insurgents to their territory?

TR

RL,

About illegal immigrants doing the jobs Americans won't, please read this article. It seems you are mistaken. As the article says: "a stagnant or declining price of something is not an indication of a shortage of it".

I need advise on immigration, RL. The problem is worse than for the alien graduates of US Universities, who Bill Gates is unable to hire because of visa restrictions. I am a quicker learner, but I don't have any degree and certainly have trouble finding a company that would want to sponsor a petition for five years, minimum.

No girl has wanted to marry me yet, which can still take years and cost thousands of dollars if you hire a lawyer or have trouble with luck. I am in a lottery to gain eligibility. I am trying to figure out what skills I can acquire that would make me both attractive to a company and be useful while in the Army - the goals are mostly at odds, but I am starting to think TR was right when he adviced on becoming even nerdier. Maybe, just maybe, that can land a temporary work permit.

Do you think it would be better if I just came over and waited for the amnesty?

Being handed an unfortunate lot or spot in life does not mean that you are in a legal or morally sound position to lie and break laws at will. It does not give you any right to tear slits in the fabric of a nation generations have worked and bled for. When circumstances permit such measures, we should be talking about insurgency, coups and revolutions, not immigration. Not that my upbringing was too bad, I have my own reasons for legal migration.

What other laws do you think should be ignored?

Martin

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

Interesting how no one pays any attention to the benefits of illegal immigration.

I've thought about this and have come to this conclusion, I'd rather not think about the "benefits" of any illegal activity.

We have lots of crime, "benefits" more police.

9/11 "benefits"; billions spent on local and national security.

Tons of drugs entering our country yearly, "benefits" new technology to detect illegal drugs.

I can do without the illegal "benefits" due to illegal activity.

Balls in your court.

Team Sergeant

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Martin

What other laws do you think should be ignored?

I am in favor of changing the law, not ignoring it.

[TF Kilo]

Changing the law to what?

If anything, the law should stay as it is.

Enforce it. There are no benifits to illegal immigration to this nation as a whole.

Case in point: berries get picked by illegals.

No illegals to pick berrys?
Berry price goes up in order to pay CITIZENS that work in the fields

I'd pay more for berries if it meant that it was going to be money that stayed in the US and fed a citizen and his family, not just trying to run his pregnant wife over the border so his daughter gets grandfathered in due to being born on american soil.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard-working, good people who we need to do work that most Americans are too lazy (or at least unwilling) to do.

To quote Penn & Teller, bullshit. They do the work at a wage that state and federal tax-paying, Social Security paying, Medicare paying, health insurance paying employees and employers simply can't afford to beat. Since it seems society has forgotten the adage "you get what you pay for", the driving principle seems to be "how cheap can you do this", rather than "what will I get for my money". Living in central Colorado, I see this on a regular basis in the construction (read 'basically unskilled labor') field.

[Surf n Turf]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

The vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard-working, good people who we need to do work that most Americans are too lazy (or at least unwilling) to do.

RL,
That most might be hard working, good people may well be true ---- but so what -- they violated our laws in coming here

I don't believe that most Americans are lazy, or unwilling to work --- As I explain below --- it's the wages

I oppose Illegal immigration (from any country) into America for three (3) basic reasons, none of which have anything to do with being xenophobic. I say this as a first generation American, whose wife and children are foreign born. My wife is a naturalized citizen, and my children received their citizenship as a birthright from me.

1. Illegal immigration is illegal – we are a sovereign nation with laws governing who, and under what circumstances, we allow people from foreign lands to legally enter our country. When people come here without our permission, they are breaking our laws, even if the “vast majority of illegal immigrants are hard-working, good people”. Additionally we have the largest and most robust legal immigration policy of any nation. We welcomed 1,122,373 legal immigrants in 2005 (source = Http://www.visalaw.com/06dec2/12dec206.html)

2. Illegal immigration drives down wages. I know you will have a hard time recognizing this problem, as not many Illegal Immigrants are Lawyers, so you face little competition from This mass migration into our Country . But is does dramatically effect wages for many skilled, and semi-skilled American workers, especially in the building trades. My Father was a plumber, and earned $27 ph in the early ‘80’s. Plumbers in our area now average $10 - $12 ph. The way it works here (because a house must be passed by a “certified” plumber), is the contractors hire 15 –20 illegals to do the plumbing, and hires one (1) American licensed plumber to certify the plumbing work in all the houses constructed by the contractor. That’s jobs for 15-20 American plumbers, that are not lazy, nor unwilling to work.

3. Illegal immigration is dangerous. We have no knowledge about the person who enters our country illegally. We do not know if they mean us good or ill, if they have a Communicable Diseases, if they are criminals, drug dealers, gang-bangers, or democrats. We do know that many are arrested, tried, and convicted on felony offenses. Incarceration rates for illegals are hard to come by, but range from estimates of 10% to 30% of our entire prison population.

In short, I see NO benefit for having any Illegal immigrant in this country. I strongly support (and hire) legal immigrants --- after I have exhausted a search for a qualified American Citizen.
SnT

[CoLawman]

You guess incorrectly. My view is that crime and drugs are separate issues. I have good solutions for them too.

[/QUOTE]

RL you cannot really be serious about separating crime and drugs from the illegal immigration issue. There is a clear nexus to methamphetamine, cocaine, and the resulting crime to Mexican nationals in our country. The Mexican national represents the entire supply side of the narcotics equation.

The majority of the Mexican nationals in this country are law abiding citizens, but the 15 to 20 percent of them that are not, create one heck of a threat.
I vacation frequently in Mexico so am obviously not a xenophobe.

[CoLawman]

RL, These statistics might cause you to rethink your position on illegal immigrants. You can continue to believe that illegal immigration is a figment of the xenophobes imagination, but you do so at your own peril. Note to sympathizers: Do not read these reports if you are unprepared to accept how great a threat illegal immigration poses to us and our country.

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html


Number of convicted criminal aliens;
Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063;
Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails between July 1,
2002, and June 30, 2003, and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement:
262,105.

For our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens:

* They were arrested for at least a total of nearly 700,000 criminal
offenses, averaging 13 offenses per alien.

* Number of illegal aliens in our study population: 55,322.

* Total number of arrests[B]: 459,614.

* Total number of criminal offenses: 691,890.

* Average number of criminal offenses per illegal alien: 13.

* Median number of criminal offenses per illegal alien: 10.

[A] One arrest incident may include multiple offenses.

Criminal offense: Homicide;
Total offenses: Number: 5,992

Criminal offense: Sex offense;
Total offenses: Number: 11,833

Criminal offense: Robbery;
Total offenses: Number: 15,305

Criminal offense: Drugs;
Total offenses: Number: 166,722

In closing let me add that this does not include the thousands and thousands of outstanding warrants for illegal aliens who have fled back to their country to avoid prosecution for the above listed crimes.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Razor

To quote Penn & Teller, bullshit. They do the work at a wage that state and federal tax-paying, Social Security paying, Medicare paying, health insurance paying employees and employers simply can't afford to beat. Since it seems society has forgotten the adage "you get what you pay for", the driving principle seems to be "how cheap can you do this", rather than "what will I get for my money". Living in central Colorado, I see this on a regular basis in the construction (read 'basically unskilled labor') field.

Stay safe.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Surf n Turf

...My Father was a plumber, and earned $27 ph in the early ‘80’s. Plumbers in our area now average $10 - $12 ph.....

Oh come on now - even here in Fayetteville, NC it's $50 just for a plumber or appliance repair guy just to walk in the door.

I know there is a difference for construction site vs repair work so.....

A friend of mine out in the Charlotte area is a sub-contractor doing mostly framing, sheeting, siding stuff in the new subdivisions. He runs a Latino crew because as he says "they are the only ones who will show up for work on time and put in a full days work." Unskilled start at $12 ph and the crew leader makes $20 ph. Not bad for a 10-12 hour day. And he's thinking of upping the pay scale this spring.

And no, he does not pay them under the table. As a small business, like me, we can not afford to have the IRS sticking it's nose into our business and shutting it down. Pay, and pay more. When you get audited by the IRS let them find out they have to pay you money back.

Just stick with "Its illegal" and the "cost of services to communities and local/state governments".

[incommin]

"You guess incorrectly. My view is that crime and drugs are separate issues. I have good solutions for them too."

RL, I don't know how one can separate the two. Use of drugs breeds crime. I can not count the burglaries and robberies I have investigated that were done by individuals looking for funds to feed their drug habit. People want to call drug use a victimless crime; it is not for the average drug users....... they commit crimes to get their drugs.

Jim