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Old 11-12-2006, 20:07   #16
Gene Econ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLiS
Gene: I still have about 50 lbs of linotype. I need to check my old supplier to see if it is even available. As I mention, I never played with the 300WM in a reduced load. I always had something more appropriate to shoot. The other thought was using a filler with a reduce load, But!! I am not sure how that would work out or how deadly to the shooter it would be. I have done that for my Trapdoor Springfield (45/70) and used a smokeless powder with reasonable accuracy. (Also for BP loads) Those 17 HMR are pretty interesting. I bought barrel for the Thompson Contender in 17 HMR. I had not had much time to play with it. Hollis
Hollis:

I screwed around with cast bullets for the .308 and 30-06 for a couple of years. Used pistol powders through fast rifle through medium burning powders. I used kapoc for fillers for the pistol powders and light loads of 4198. Tried cream of wheat and oatmeal as well but the kapoc worked better. For the high pressure cartridges like the .308, I found a light load of 4895 without a filler was about the best. 4759 and 3031 worked very well in the straight walled and necked BP cartridges but didn't seem to do well in the modern bottleneck cartridges. Super slow powders like surplus .50 cal powder did a decent job but left partially burned powder in the barrel.

I have five or six molds for .30 caliber rifle. Gas checked of course. All the conventional wisdom said to use a flat tip bullet but I got the best luck with a spitzer tip cast bullet that was basically a bore rider. Still, it was almost impossible to shoot a minute of angle and no matter how well my QC, one of ten would really fly.

Might as well tell guys that it is no fun dealing with cast bullets and any modern bottleneck cartridge. One has to ream out the inside of the necks to take the larger diameter of a cast bullet. Cast bullets are always oversized to seal the bore.

Best alloy for the .30 caliber bullets for me was straight lineotype. Best alloy for the BP cartridge rifles was pure lead with a touch of tin added to fill out the mold. If I paper patched a BP bullet, I preferred a harder bullet like the Lyman #2 alloy. NEI made a 500 grain PP bullet for the Sharps that was very respectable.

Man, so many hours spent with so little to show for it.

Gene

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Old 11-14-2006, 11:31   #17
kachingchingpow
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Thanks for all the replies guys...

This has been a great thread.

An interesting shot on a deer last weekend made me think about it. I was about 35' up a tree overlooking a peanut field last Saturday, and a few does came out to the field right at dark... about 220 yards away. I was in a stand that didn't have any type of rest, so I made an off-hand shot for the head. The bullet hit the deer on the left side of the neck, about 4 inches behind the ear. It travelled down the length of the neck, exiting the right side just behind the shoulder (where you would normally place a heart/lung shot... in the dimple.) After exiting, the bullet continued it's path and broke the rear right leg in half. First of all, since the bullet didn't hit a large bone like the shoulder the exit wound was reasonable... about the size of a silver dollar. What impressed me though was that the bullet maintained it's flight path through the deer and broke the leg. The bullet had a pretty long way to go down through it's neck, etc. That answered some questions for me in terms of the durability of the Remington Permier Partitions in 180gr. I also liked the hole size. I think on a thin skinned fox that bullet might just pencil hole it, provided I choose a shot between the hips and the ribs (gut shoot it basically). I don't think it'll be a problem. Either way, Thanksgiving weekend will be the next weekend I'll be in the woods. My son will sit in a ground blind with me, and he'll have my .357 1894 lever action (which I bought at a small pawn shop outside Bragg about 4 years ago for a steal). I might keep a hard cast handy for the lever gun and see what it does.
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Old 11-14-2006, 21:26   #18
Gene Econ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kachingchingpow
This has been a great thread. An interesting shot on a deer last weekend made me think about it. I was about 35' up a tree overlooking a peanut field last Saturday, and a few does came out to the field right at dark... about 220 yards away. I was in a stand that didn't have any type of rest, so I made an off-hand shot for the head. The bullet hit the deer on the left side of the neck, about 4 inches behind the ear. It travelled down the length of the neck, exiting the right side just behind the shoulder (where you would normally place a heart/lung shot... in the dimple.) After exiting, the bullet continued it's path and broke the rear right leg in half. First of all, since the bullet didn't hit a large bone like the shoulder the exit wound was reasonable... about the size of a silver dollar. What impressed me though was that the bullet maintained it's flight path through the deer and broke the leg. The bullet had a pretty long way to go down through it's neck, etc. That answered some questions for me in terms of the durability of the Remington Permier Partitions in 180gr. I also liked the hole size.
Well old boy -- when I hunted I hunted with some double guns I own. I don't hunt today because it sucks to get up at 0200 and walk through the woods in pouring 42 degree rain just to not see or shoot a game animal. I can go to my gun club and shoot the whole day under a cover so I don't get soaked.

Well, I hunted with a double rifle, a Sharps Big .50, a Day Swivel Breech flintlock in .40 and .50 Calibers, and a Gostomski .20 guage Trade Gun. That Trade Gun is sweet. Smooth bore you know -- provided you aren't of the generation that thinks some sabot conical represents the 1700's.

So I had a 577 / 500 double gun with Damascus barrels. This rifle came with its leather case, loading dies, and bullet mold. I cast up a couple hundred bullets from this mold. They were a 350 grain hollow point bullet sized for paper patching -- what is known as an 'Express Rifle' bullet of that era.

I have a Lyon and Lyon 500 / 3 Inch double gun with exposed hammers and underlever action so I decided to go hunting with this rifle and that 350 grain pure lead hollow point paper patch bullet loaded on about 120 grains of 2F Black Powder.

I shot a 'Fort Stewart' size deer (maybe fifty pounds) at about fifty yards with a raking shot and totally destroyed the carcass in the process. There was nothing left to pack out or eat. That bullet went through its right shoulder and opened up diagonally to it's left hind quarters -- totally destroying the animal.

I hunted the same spot the next day and used some 400 grain solid lead bullets with the same rifle. My thinking was that the 350 grain solf lead hollow point was too devistating on a game animal (duhhh). I shot another beast in the same exact spot as the deer I shot the day before. Except that the solid lead 400 grain bullet went right through that animal with little effect. I saw the blood go out the opposite side of the animal. So this beast staggers directly under my stand and out of pity for the poor animal I thumbed back the hammer of the other barrel and blasted the animal from about ten feet right down through the neck. I actually was able to eat some of this carcass.

I then understood what "Too Much Gun" meant. I still have that Lyon and Lyon double rifle and it must represent the epitome of a dangerous game rifle.

I haven't hunted a wild animal for twenty years. Why? Because I can depend on others to go out in cold rain day after day and hunt. When they shoot an animal, they never have enough room to store the meat so they give it to me!

He, he, he.

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Old 11-15-2006, 07:26   #19
kachingchingpow
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Holy Smokes!

Yeah, those are heavy hitters Gene. I get a chance to shoot all kinds of firearms through the gun club that I belong to. It's a little on the "pricey" side... lots of covered ranges, cowboy action, action pistol, 600yd, etc. etc. The price keeps the odd fumbling idiot with a recently purchased SKS from ruining everyone's day. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying $$$ are everything but it does weed out some of the people that don't take the sport very seriously. Some of the people that do belong there have some very nice firearms and I occasionally get a chance to shoot some. Everything from Sharps rifles to $15k bench rest rail guns. I have never shot a big double gun before though. It would be fun to spit 10 or so rounds downrange with one.

I often get an odd look from people when I tell them that my primary rifles are a .300WM Rem 700 and a .45/70 Marlin Lever action. "Too much for whitetails" is usually the response. It's easy to explain really. Where I hunt, which is not all that far from Ft. Stewart (about an hour and change north west) I have 2 basic approaches to the harvest. 1. Hunt the fields in the afternoon /evening, with the most likely target being does. The bucks rarely walk onto a field unless it's after dark, or their in full rut. Long range rifle is a must. .300 isn't required, but like I said in a previous post, it found me. 2. Other times I hunt the swamp bottoms and thickest, heaviest cover that I can find with buck action. The bullet will often have to bust it's way through magnolia, green briar, swamp oak and all sorts of other flora on the way to it's destination. That's where that .45/70 performs nicely. It denies cover. I shoot a 350 hollow point, and have never had what I consider to be "too much" damage. Occassionally a close shot to a shoulder will rip it up pretty bad, but so will just about any high-powered rifle. It's my unscientific opinion that either the load isn't hot enough, or these coastal white tails just aren't thick enough to fully expand the bullet unless it hits a major bone. Just the weight of the bullet and diameter of the wound channel knocks them to their knees like they just were hit with a Chevy van. I've killed a bunch of deer with the .45/70 and have only had to track one. It was my fault for taking a 300yard shot with that round and a 2x-7x scope. It took 2 shots to get the correct holdover and I ended up hitting it in the gut. The next 2 hours were spent tracking it through green briar. When it was over with I looked like I had been in a fight with a wild cat.

I'm with you on the rain thing Gene, I don't hunt in it. The animals really don't move in it anyhow. As soon as it stops and a cold breeze blows though, every animal in the woods moves. Personally, I can't even deal with Washington state in that regard. I enjoy the fair Georgia weather too much

Due to kid commitments, my days of doing things "for myself" have basically come to an end. However for a few weeks after youth football ends (I coach), I hit the woods hard. After a couple weekends on my own, I start taking my son and daughter out to the woods in an effort to expose them to a sport that fewer kids each year have the opportunity to participate in. We have 2000 acres, so they get a chance to ride 4 wheelers, target shoot, hunt, and even sit in the trailer and watch cartoons if they want. I don't get on them about stupid stuff unless we're at home.

Last edited by kachingchingpow; 11-15-2006 at 07:32.
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