Woman Is Termed Qualified For Green Beret Unit - Page 2

incommin · 10-28-2006, 05:58

"Ah, you just want to join the 'he man woman hater's club' dontcha, Alfalfa?"

No! I just want to stay clear of the women who use men club!

Jim

x SF med · 10-28-2006, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by incommin

No! I just want to stay clear of the women who use men club!

Jim

BTDT - my ex left me for her boss after 16 yrs of marriage - she took 50% of everything, after all her debt was paid off - judge's orders, even though she was screwing around with a lawyer - don't get divorced in NJ, men have no rights.

bost1751 · 10-28-2006, 09:03

Ex- SF-Med:

Do not limit the men have no rights to NJ. I think it is nationwide.

A good friend of mine was assigned to Training Group during the Katie ordeal. I can't remember everything in detail he told me during that time frame but it boiled down to she did not do exactly what the men did. Not by a long shot. What it boiled down to was Miss Katie was allowed to go through the motions and granted a beret. She did not earn a beret. Big political horse crap due to the era we had just finished and the era we were in.

incommin · 10-28-2006, 13:45

I think there is a lot of using on both sides of the fence......however, it seems the women get the dirty end of the stick less often.

Jim

Richard · 10-28-2006, 16:01

Guys, I was the Det Cdr for ODA-726 when the Kate Wilder fiasco--and it was a total fiasco--took place. SWC really screwed that one up and all involved were used by one shrewd, manipulative, female with "heavy" support from some members of Congress and DACOWITS. COL Ola Mize (CMH) was the SWC Cdr and MG Lutz the Cdr of JFKCMA. After the investigations (there were more than one) and legal shenanigans were over, CPT Wilder was awarded the 5G and sent to Fort Huachuca with a proviso that she would never serve in an SF assignment ever again. She retired an LTC and the last time I saw her name was during the 2004 elections when she came out in support of John Kerry's nomination for POTUS. Figures. My favorite memory of the Wilder affair was the t-shirt that was printed with her face imposed on an ART-2 sight reticle; MG Lutz put the word out that anyone in SF caught wearing one of the t-shirts would be reassigned out of SF so they didn't sell for long. I wish now that I would have bought one for a souvenir as it would look good on the wall in my den now.

sf11b_p · 10-29-2006, 10:05

She seems to be involved in Virginia Democrat politics now and is recently quoted in campaign articles in WP and Washinton Times 10-18-06 and USA Today dated 10-26-06. She's made comments on women in the military and her having been the only women to qualify and serve in SF. She also remarks on integrity. Google search.

Quote:

"When I was in the Special Forces, I can tell you, when they speak of Jim's article, believe me, the men were disgruntled by having us in the military. It was a tumultuous time," said retired Col. Kate Wilder, who says she was the only woman ever to serve as a Green Beret. "But it wasn't yesterday. It was 30 years ago. Life moves on." - WP

Richard · 10-29-2006, 11:02

"...said retired Col. Kate Wilder, who says she was the only woman ever to serve as a Green Beret. "

Well, not much integrity there. She and a few other women were assigned to SF HQs and MI units in non-SF slots, but none ever served as a "Green Beret" as Wilder claims. She wasn't in an SF assignment when awarded the 5G and never served in one once she received it. I hope somebody publicly "outs" her on this one.

**Team Sergeant** · 10-29-2006, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

I hope somebody publicly "outs" her on this one.

You just did

504PIR · 10-30-2006, 09:43

Unfortunately while the folks on this board and in the community will know the truth. The Mass Media will idolize her as the "first female Green Beret" and use her as a symbol for what left-leaning drivel they are putting out.

AngelsSix · 11-01-2006, 19:35

Ah, you know I should not say anything here....but what the hell, the TS is halfway across the country, LOL!!

Quote:

We can thank her for getting one thing done, she closed the book on any other females attending the Q-Course.

That is a shame. While I believe personally that women could contribute something to SF, I also know that there are FEW that could make it throught the selection. I have all the heart in the world to get things done, but my body can only do so much. I accept these limitations and compensate in my own way by being sneakier and shooting better than the bad guys I deal with (LE stuff). I have learned that trying to outdo the guys (cops) just gets me into trouble; now I try to learn from them and work with them. We have quite a few guys in our unit that are pretty squared away and high speed. I am one of the only deployable females in the unit. I won't compromise my values for anything. The guys seem to be unsure how to deal with me because I won't do the usual thing (sleep with everyone who offers). But it is a trip to be in the squad leader's office and hear then telling stories about all the girls that have been in the unit that were "passed around". It is almost like I am one of the guys, LOL.

In any case, if I thought that I had a chance, I would at least give it a shot. To me, to try and have failed is better than never to have tried at all.

NousDefionsDoc · 11-01-2006, 20:05

Quote:

While I believe personally that women could contribute something to SF, I also know that there are FEW that could make it throught the selection.

No, they really couldn't.

"Making it through selection" is not the hard part of being SF. Selection is a continuous and constant process. One does not "make it through" - one does it every waking moment.

Unless you have been on a Team, you can't begin to understand how close Teammates are.

And for the record, I was in several units with females in them, in every single one, every one - there were problems. No, the females did not cause all the problems nor am I blaming them. But it is an indisputable fact. Your own post is evidence.

There are great women in the military and many of them do a fantastic job at what they do. They have no business in SF.

We pass around mags and frags, not Teammates.

**The Reaper** · 11-01-2006, 20:15

K:

I hear what you are saying, but at what price to the program to open it up so that the few who might make it can try? There would inevitably be pressure from very high levels to let a certain number through the pipeline, and standards be damned. Are we that desperate?

I hate to say it, because you have the right attitude, but as you correctly observe, there are things that my body can do that yours can't. There is no way that you can pick me up, much less carry me, nor can you stand up or walk any distance with a mission weight ruck on your back.

As mentioned on another thread, the team is only as strong as its weakest link. You can be the smartest, most MOS proficient individual in the world, and if you can't haul your own weight, there is no room on a small team like SF for you. I can virtually guarantee that a female would be the last at rucking, the weakest physically, and almost certainly the slowest runner. That is why there are two sets of standards on the PT Test, with the females generally being allowed 3:00 per mile or more for the same distance. Shorter legs, smaller muscle mass and higher body fat, and less testosterone make this a necessity.

On a sidenote, there are no undeployables in SF due to pregnancies, sexual harrassment, sexual relationships between team members, or rapes of/by team members. No mixed sex units that I am aware of can say that.

I love women, have a daughter, and no, I do not want her on an ODA.

TR

AngelsSix · 11-09-2006, 20:59

As far as I am concerned, the Air Force has given me the freedom to be part of an operational team. We have deployed to the ME many times, including IRAQ and the Stan. The females in my unit either stand their ground and hold the standards or they are put where they are more usefull (there are plenty of desk jobs in AF SF). We have sent females outside the wire on more than one occasion (there were a few that were heavy gunners) that have held their own and pulled their weight (literally). I believe that a lot of what goes on in the military (from observing that in Iraq) is misogyny. I know that there are women out there that can keep up. Seems to me like there are men out there that can't handle that.

**The Reaper** · 11-09-2006, 21:17

Then why are there two sets of standards on the PT test?

If a 20 year old man has to run a 16:00 two-miler to pass, why should the female get 21:00? Will the enemy slow down for her? If I have to do 45 good push-ups to pass, or 80 to max it, why shouldn't you? If the requirement is for the team to hump 130 pounds each (and I have stood on the ramp of a C130 with far more than that), and hump it for 12 miles, is it fair to ask the male team members to carry yours for you?

Why can a unit that does PT together not hold its all of its members to the same standards?

Please remember that this isn't AF SF, it is Army SF. Special Forces, not Security Forces. We don't ride a lot or live at the FOB for very long. What works for AF cops may not be the ideal for Army combat arms units. I think that the Army has done a pretty good job of determining which jobs Army females are capable of performing. Why do you think you know better?

Facts are than men have greater muscle mass, tremendously more upper body strength, more endurance, are more durable, and are more aggressive due to elevated testosterone. We cannot get pregnant, or menstruate. Women have good hand eye coordination, equal reflexes, equal intelligence, and a lower center of gravity. If I want pilots, those factors are a wash and either should be equally capable. If I want pack mules who can run, gun, and brawl, if necessary, I think I can see which gender I would be selecting from.

Your favorite Neanderthal misogynist, who loves women-

TR

**Razor** · 11-09-2006, 23:10

Tell ya what, A6. You get all the pro sports teams in the US and the international Olympic teams to integrate, and have women winning their competitions 40-50% of the time, I'll reconsider my opinion.

Why, in an area where the participants are at the very tops of their fields, where failing only means you lost a game, are people fine with maintaining segregation, yet when the stakes include peoples lives (not only in combat, but lives in garrison as well) folks fail to see the very obvious physical and social reasons for the separation?