IDs for voting equates to poll tax... - Page 2

Gypsy · 09-25-2006, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aoresteen

In Illinois you don't need to show an ID. That's how democrats move voters from polling place to polling place to vote multiple times.

OK, no ID needed. But get out the purple ink jars and once you have voted, dip your finger in it so you can't vote again. No cost to the voter! Hey, it worked in Iraq, why not in Cook County?

Well, I think that may have been true many moons ago during the old "vote early, vote often" times from Daley Sr.'s days and maybe before. I have lived in the Chicago area my entire life, been voting in every election since I was eligible...and have always had to show a picture ID with my voter registration card.

jasonglh · 09-25-2006, 16:59

I'm 34 years old and had to show my photo ID at Walmart today to buy aerosol carb cleaner. Pretty soon I guess you will have to show proof of age to buy gas cause you could huff that if you wanted.

Gypsy · 09-25-2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Books

A thought about illegals voting. . . considering that, from what I understand, most illegals don't vote and that most citizens (who can vote) in our country also don't vote, does it really matter that the few illegals who do value their new home (either legally or illegally) enough to go about making their contributions to the democratic process by casting a vote.

Yes, it matters. Sure we have a lot of big fish to fry but illegals do NOT have the right to vote for the President. Actually they don't have a right to be here at all...but I digress.

That's how it starts...a few here, few there, a little of this and that and before you know it...well, you can figure it out.

Books · 09-25-2006, 20:33

I guess I don't sweat the illegal issue too much. Granted, in Seattle (or in NC) there isn't much talk of La Raza reclaiming the Southwest.

It seems that throughout our country's history, there have been waves of undesireables coming for opportunity from far away. The Irish, the Poles, the Germans, etc. My own Great-Grandfather was an illegal immigrant in that he didn't register the first time he came to the states from Denmark. He just jumped ship in Baltimore. Once he established himself, he went back to Denmark, married his sweatheart and returned to live his life in Estados Unidos. He voted, served in the Navy in the Spanish-American war and generally did what most immigrants want to do: became a citizen.

My arguement, if you want to call it that, is that those who pony up and contribute to the success of the whole should be rewarded for their efforts. If that means participating in the democratic process, well, why not? They pay taxes on their stolen/forged social security numbers right? We all start from somewhere - why should it be a crime to be unfortunate? Viva la Immigration!

The real pisser for me are the multitudes of "real citizens" who haven't the faintest idea of how incredibly good they have it here. The don't vote, don't serve, don't volunteer, they bitch and moan when their latte arrives lukewarm (as they should, really) and for most every inconvience. For the most part, these folks are wastes of protein.

As for Starship Troopers, you're right x_sf_med, it was military service for citizenship. Seems very Roman to me. I'm sold. For the pacifists in the crowd, I'd be good with some form of civil service (Americorps, Peace Corps type stuff)

Books

lrd · 09-25-2006, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Books

They pay taxes on their stolen/forged social security numbers right?

Do they?

Quote:

We all start from somewhere - why should it be a crime to be unfortunate? Viva la Immigration!

It's not a crime to be unfortunate. However, we do have legal immigration. I believe the issue here is with illegal immigration.

Gypsy · 09-25-2006, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrd

It's not a crime to be unfortunate. However, we do have legal immigration. I believe the issue here is with illegal immigration.

True.

Books, I'm sure there are many people who came here illegally that love this country. I can also appreciate the fact that they'd probably crawl through broken glass or worse to be here...I know I would had I not been born in the US. But we as a Country cannot reward illegal behavior, no matter how wonderful some of these people may be.

Yes, we all start or came from somewhere. My relatives came here from Ireland, Sicily and Germany (yeah I'm a mutt) legally, and while it can be a lengthy process to do so...again I ask where do we draw the line? What is allowed for one then becomes precedent and what has to be allowed for all.

It boils down to the fact that if someone is not a legal citizen of the US they do NOT have the right to vote and elect officials to run this country, or local/state governments for that matter.

It's more like Viva la LEGAL immigration...

Aoresteen · 09-26-2006, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy

Well, I think that may have been true many moons ago during the old "vote early, vote often" times from Daley Sr.'s days and maybe before. I have lived in the Chicago area my entire life, been voting in every election since I was eligible...and have always had to show a picture ID with my voter registration card.

I left the Chicago area in 1993. My brother still lives in Wheaton. For the last three elections he tells me that they do not ask for his ID nor do they want to see it when he votes. Makes him mad as hell. Here in Florida you must show your ID (as it should be everywhere!).

Glad to hear that in some areas of Chicagoland that IDs are required.

incommin · 09-26-2006, 11:10

[QUOTE=Books]Don't you have to prove citizenship when you register to vote in the first place? I can't remember (it's been so long ago). Certainly showing photo ID to verify that you are indeed said person is reasonable. . .

I don't think the main issue is US citizenship. It is one person-one vote. Without a valid ID and some way to track votes, individuals can vote over and over again......even vote for dead people.

Several years ago I had to process 730 local ballots for latent prints. I found 9 ballots with prints from one person on them....... He made a plea deal to forgery and fraud.

If this kind of stuff is happening in little sleepy towns, what is going on in the big cities?

Jim

Books · 09-26-2006, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by incommin=

I don't think the main issue is US citizenship. It is one person-one vote. Without a valid ID and some way to track votes, individuals can vote over and over again......even vote for dead people.

Several years ago I had to process 730 local ballots for latent prints. I found 9 ballots with prints from one person on them....... He made a plea deal to forgery and fraud.

If this kind of stuff is happening in little sleepy towns, what is going on in the big cities?

Jim

Fair enough about fraud happening everywhere; I just became a little bit more cynical. As for the issue at hand, I understood that the bill was to prove citizenship. . . I can see it getting wrapped up with constitutional scholars if it ever becomes law. I couldn't really comment on that - way out of my paygrade.

Gypsy, you've got a point about having to draw a line somewhere. I guess my frustration is with my elected officials bickering about something that is important on principle, but not IMHO essential. I'm much more concerned about intermodal cargo containers flowing into our country unchecked through our ports or Iran getting the bomb. Nietzsche has a line that goes something like this: "The strength of an organism can be determined by how many parasites it can support." In the world of bugs, illegal immigration and, to a lesser extent, illegal voting, seems manageable, while Islamic fascists with Nukes is entirely unacceptable. You guys get my point.

Oh, and Incommin, I think you would appreciate knowing that my youngest brother K. (not to be confused with Kafka's protagonist in The Castle), is just about finished with BCT and is heading to AIT to be a Combat Engineer. I'm so proud of the kid I could pop.

Thanks folks for hearing me out; I've got to get back to ACLS.

Books.

82ndtrooper · 09-26-2006, 14:54

The democrats only exercising a desperate attempt to get all the other wise NON registered voters to the polls !! Mexican, Muslims, etc..................seems to me they already have a bit of anxiety about the upcoming November elections.

As many have stated, I dont know anyone, at least a legal citizen of the U.S. get's along with at least a state issued ID. This morning on Fox News some democrat, I wont mention the race, was spewing some rediculous rant about that "WE ALL LIVE IN THE UPPER CLASS" and that we that have ID's and DL's are only the privileged of the U.S. ....................What? come again ?

No proof of voter registration, and no ID..................but they want to vote ??Sorry take you behind back to what ever 3rd world little part of the U.S. you live in and get your freaking ID and remember to register to vote or your name will not be there for you to present your ID !!

Democrats.............................They are so desperate, it's like stepping on each others toes to get in front of the camera.

Goggles Pizano · 09-26-2006, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

The democrats only exercising a desperate attempt to get all the other wise NON registered voters to the polls !! Mexican, Muslims, etc..................seems to me they already have a bit of anxiety about the upcoming November elections.

Democrats.............................They are so desperate, it's like stepping on each others toes to get in front of the camera.

This is why I am both amused and angered every election when if a Democrat wins it is treated as a victory for the little guy. If he or she loses it's off to the courts to protest the election. Once again thank you Al Gore ,you scumbag, for opening up this pandora's box during elections.

My only hope is the majority of the legal, voting eligible electorate (as it seems to be doing) is closing in on "we're as mad as hell, and we're not going to take this anymore!".

Gypsy · 09-26-2006, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aoresteen

I left the Chicago area in 1993. My brother still lives in Wheaton. For the last three elections he tells me that they do not ask for his ID nor do they want to see it when he votes. Makes him mad as hell. Here in Florida you must show your ID (as it should be everywhere!).

Glad to hear that in some areas of Chicagoland that IDs are required.

I'm really surprised at that bit of info! I just moved to Wheaton last year so it will be interesting to see what happens this election.

Books, yes I absolutely do get your point on the "bigger issues"...and am also very concerned about those mentioned and more. I just simply disagree that illegal immigration (and illegals voting) is a manageable problem...especially the former, it's out of control.

tk27 · 09-26-2006, 22:36

Since a drivers license is not proof of citizenship (foreigners and in some states illegals can have them), the only acceptable photo id for use at the polls, or to get a federal voter id, that I can think of is a passport. At face value I can work with that. But newly issued passports are soon to contain RFID tags/chips.

The interplay between the two rubs me the wrong way. Imagining the potential affects, from the harmless to the diabolical, goes against every conservative (limited government type, the true type) ideal in me. Maybe it is time to get the tinfoil-hat out of the closet.