09-07-2006, 05:01
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#16
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Gun Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Iowa and New Mexico
Posts: 2,143
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irishsquid
Actually, your response was right on. I was only stating that your lack of sympathy is not something I regard as a bad thing. I don't ask for sympathy, and I certainly don't ask for respect if I can't earn it.
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OK, fair enough!
__________________
E7-CW3-direct commission VN
B model gunship pilot 65-66 Soc Trang, Cobra Pilot 68-69-70 Can Tho Life member 101st Airborne Association
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CPTAUSRET is offline
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09-07-2006, 06:40
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
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Terry-
I'm surprised at you - catching the same guy, asleep on watch in a CZ 3x, and only kicking his ass? Hope he's still recovering.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"
Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb
Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
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x SF med is offline
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09-07-2006, 10:14
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#18
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 261
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NJP
If your chain will give you a summarized (local) filing of the NJP/mast and you are discharged with an honorable you still need to note it on your application to whoever you're applying to. Big boy rules apply. It'll be found out sooner or later (especially if you ever need to apply for a clearance that goes into a background investigation or polygraph).
Sooner or later your new chain of command will know.
I've had several Soldiers (including E6s) that took the summarized and successfully Soldiered out of it to go on to Special Mission Units.
Of course, it's always your right to demand trial by court martial, but that would just reinforce a pattern of poor judgment.
Everyone's authorized 1 dumbass attack. A second notes a pattern and failure of corrective action.
Good luck, and I mean it.
Last edited by Sinister; 09-07-2006 at 10:21.
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Sinister is offline
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09-07-2006, 16:45
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#19
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 312
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What do you mean by summarized/local filing? I'll still be honorably discharged, with an RE code of 1. I really do appreciate all of your help. I have now had my one "authorized" dumbass attack, and will refrain from any stupidity in the future. Hope you all have a great day.
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Irishsquid is offline
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09-08-2006, 09:13
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 261
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Summarized Proceedings
You are given the NJP, but it is filed locally (JAG does the preparation, you are served with it by the command, and the command literally keeps it locked in the CO's or XO's safe, locally -- it does not show up in your permanent file, microfiche, or records). You may be suspended from favorable action (Good Conduct Medal, decorations, or promotions) and be barred from re-enlistment until you are discharged. On your PCS or discharge it is shredded, and does not follow or appear in your BUPERS file if you decide you want to re-enlist in the Navy or other service down the road, or if you are recalled from the Inactive Ready Reserve.
Should you screw up again in your current assignment before your separation the CO can activate it and send it to BUPERS for permanent filing, add another NJP or admin/UCMJ action to the first, and administratively separate you for a pattern of misbehavior/misconduct and failure to overcome the bar.
I've shot many rounds across the bow on Soldiers I thought were salvageable who for whatever reason temporarily lost their minds. I don't have to boot a good Soldier for temporary insanity, but there's no doubt in their mind that if they so much as stutter-step marching down the hall they're civilians with a less than honorable in their back pocket.
If they're mature they'll Soldier out of it. One of my Battalion Command Sergeant Majors had a guy pull staff duty every night for two weeks, on top of painting all the stripes in the parking lot with a three-inch wide brush. Everyone saw him, knew what he had done, and thought it was reasonable to keep from being booted. He never strayed again and I believe he retired as an E7.
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Sinister is offline
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09-08-2006, 09:47
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#21
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Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Big Country
Posts: 253
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Speaking from experience, its not so much the NJP that will hurt you as the punishment you receive (i.e. reduction in rank). I got two NJP's while I was in. One was two weeks after I got to the fleet for underage drinking. The second one was right after we got back from Iraq and I caught a friend of mine boondoogling another buddies girlfriend while he was on a beer run. That wouldn't have been too much of an issue except for the fact that the BC decided that weekend would be a good time for a suprise MWR walkthrough and caught me holding him off of the third deck by his throat.
However, neither one invovled reduction in rank and I managed to get the second NJP overturned on review right before I got out becuase of that (if it wasn't severe enough to receive reduc, it wasn't serious enough to rate an NJP).
I'm in the background phase of my application with LVMPD and becuase the NJP's didn't involve being busted down they aren't counting against me and before, while I was pursuing reenlistment in the Army under an 18x contract, I had to write a statement about the incident, but at the time the weren't being held against me. Now I didn't get past MEPS for medical issue that were unbeknownst to me at the time so don't take that part as cannon. Again though, its the punishment that will hurt you more than the actuall NJP.
__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.-George Orwell
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Tubbs is offline
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09-08-2006, 11:45
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#22
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,812
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Tubbs:
We do not treat NJP that way and I recommend that if you are not familiar with the SF application and waiver process, you do not comment on it.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-09-2006, 03:16
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#23
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Gun Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Iowa and New Mexico
Posts: 2,143
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by x_sf_med
Terry-
I'm surprised at you - catching the same guy, asleep on watch in a CZ 3x, and only kicking his ass? Hope he's still recovering.
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I was told his arm would never be the same. He was wearing web gear, his flak vest, and an M-16 slung over his shoulder with his arms crossed over his chest fast asleep, he landed badly (lousy PLF), shatered his arm, which he extended to break his fall, NASTY break!
I don't lose any sleep over it!
__________________
E7-CW3-direct commission VN
B model gunship pilot 65-66 Soc Trang, Cobra Pilot 68-69-70 Can Tho Life member 101st Airborne Association
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CPTAUSRET is offline
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09-09-2006, 19:26
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
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T-
you ought to sleep better - how many guys did that save? Plenty, even if it was just one. The guy was a Bravo Foxtrot.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"
Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb
Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
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x SF med is offline
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09-10-2006, 20:43
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#25
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 864
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET
I was told his arm would never be the same. He was wearing web gear, his flak vest, and an M-16 slung over his shoulder with his arms crossed over his chest fast asleep, he landed badly (lousy PLF), shatered his arm, which he extended to break his fall, NASTY break!
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Good for him. A nice reminder not to screw off next time. He was probably lucky not to have to also get your foot removed from his ass.
__________________
So let me fill my children's hearts
With heroes tales and hope it starts
A fire in them so deeds are done
With no vain sighs for moments gone
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Monsoon65 is offline
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09-26-2009, 20:00
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#26
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 0
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NJP
I just wanted to get everyone's take on my Article 15. I read all the responses to the previous post. I received a NJP three months before I was discharged from the Marine Corps. I was punished with a reduction in rank from E-4 to E-3 and had a forfieture of pay suspended. Now for the incident leading to the charges. I had a married female in the barracks after hours and when she went to depart at 10AM the Duty SGT stopped her. He called PMO and the Squadron Duty Officer. In my opinion he made a mountain out of a mole hill but I should have been smarter and snuck her out through the side hatch. This occured in Okinawa Japan, which I am sure magnified it. I was charged with article 92? and 107because I lied about her marital status This was in 2004 but since I was discharged shortly after I did not get a chance to "soldier out" of it. I now dream of being an SF soldier I just hope that it will not remain a dream. It really stinks and am sure I will be requesting a waiver for this NJP. Just wanted to get all the professionals opinions on this one.
I think the problem with holding an NJP against someone is the lack of a burden of proof required to discipline someone.
Willyjr
1,000 "at a boys" are erased by one OH S@#T!
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willyjr is offline
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09-26-2009, 20:06
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#27
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 0
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One more thing gentlemen, if I am not able to get an 18x contract do you think I would be able to go with Ranger or Airborne option and soldier my way out of the NJP and drop an SF packet from there? Thank you in advance for any responses.
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willyjr is offline
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09-26-2009, 23:42
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#28
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,812
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If you don't mind me asking, did you know she was married?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-27-2009, 01:32
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas, near Cow Town
Posts: 351
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Guys, back in the days of my youth, it would be safe to say that getting Article 15s in SF was pretty uncommon - but I did get one. Speeding on Chicken Road. Oh Well.
But I would also be safe in saying that about 99% of us in SF did one or two things, Minimum, each month that probably should have gotten us one if we had just been dumb enough to get caught. Thank God.
__________________
Mitch
Last edited by Mitch; 09-27-2009 at 01:34.
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Mitch is offline
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09-27-2009, 01:47
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#30
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Asset
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
If you don't mind me asking, did you know she was married?
TR
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Yes I knew she was married. There is a lot to the story I just wanted to keep it short and take the gig for being a dumb a##. She was in a contract marriage and she is now my wife. I was an outstanding Marine to that point and I did not have any idea what to do. Did not know if they would try and get me for adultery or what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch
But I would also be safe in saying that about 99% of us in SF did one or two things, Minimum, each month that probably should have gotten us one if we had just been dumb enough to get caught. Thank God.
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Yes I was dumb enough to get caught. We all know how some things make a man lose his mind. Temporary insanity. I am referring to love and beer.
Willyjr
Perception is reality
Last edited by willyjr; 09-29-2009 at 15:54.
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