Basic Gone Soft - Page 2

SF18C · 04-16-2006, 08:11

I can't really speak to Basic Training, but I can comment at what I have seen locally. We had a troop that clearly needed to be tossed out of the Army for the good of the Army.

Here was just a few of the infractions that I knew about or observed first hand:
1. Well over the weight standards (by 50lbs)
2. Dereliction of duty (falling asleep while on shift) I (as a civilian) try to push for an Article 15 because I was the supervisor of the shop when this happened, but it did not go that way!
3. Absent with out leave for several days multiple times. They guy would just not show up to work days on end!
4. Physical fights with his NCOs and Civilian counterparts.
5. Multiple failed PT exams.

Did the unit or it CSM recommend discharge, NO they promoted him!!!!

He has went from an E-1 dirt bag to a E-4 bigger dirt bag in less than 2 years, also the CSM is pushing for the Promotion board!

Some days I feel very sorry for the Army!

TFM · 04-16-2006, 08:57

That is far beyond my comprehension.

These sort of occurances are an enigma. Sometimes the guy that is squared away can't get promoted. ???

04-16-2006, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

This will not be fixed till the warfighters demand something be done, and TRADOC gets the quality input, time, and resources needed to realistically train combat soldiers.

TR

Sir, do you think it is possible to kick start that process?

Martin

One up One down · 04-16-2006, 09:31

I'm another one fresh out of basic, graduated September 17th. I was at Fort Jackson, and I'll agree it was too easy. Luckily I had great drill sergeants who inspired, and still inspire me, to do above the minimum expected. But, I saw more than a few people who I was stunned they graduated. Either they were on profile for over half of basic, or fell out of marches, what be it they shouldn't have graduated and did. If you fell out of a ruck, you made it up on a track with an empty sack. I wish I was kidding. AIT was different I'm in an MOS that puts the burden on intelligence to get through AIT, and some of the people shouldn't have been there to start with, and shouldn't have graduated at the end. But there they are getting pushed through. Now that I'm at my unit, a 5 man station, I'm stuck with one of those ones who shouldn't have made it through AIT, and I spend a good deal of my time correcting him or showing him how to do it properly, i.e. how he was trained! If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have been at Jackson for Basic, I would've sucked it up and asked for Benning or Know, I believe I would be a higher level soldier now.

SF18C · 04-16-2006, 09:49

One up One down...You give me hope that I may be able to grow old with a professional military defending my freedom! Keep up enforcing the standards and maybe your persistence will square him away.

TFM...I swear to you it is all true! I couldn't even begin to make up a story as bad as SPC Maz the Spaz!

BondWells · 04-20-2006, 21:26

I just attended my son's graduation from OSUT at FT Benning. He is in 18X pipeline. His company was primarily 18X, and it showed. They had little respect for other companies, who were gettng passes, etc early in basic, when their group got nothing till much later. A very impressive group, overall. They drove themselves hard, and the DIs drove them harder. Unfortunately a significant number - I think he said 39, dropped their contracts as a result of momma complaining. Obviously that is for the best. Now he is in airborne and complaining about how easy it is. So he and his buddies are doing extra PT and rucking in the evening. I went thru 30 years ago and I thought it was easy, but not as laid back as he describes. When I dropped him off I saw some fat Captains in the class - but he said a bunch failed the PT test MINIMUMS on day one - for shame. Told him to use the time to heal up and get his legs in better shape (on his own time). The good news is in three weeks I will pin the wings I received in '76 on him - as bloodwings!

MtnGoat · 04-21-2006, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BondWells

Now he is in airborne and complaining about how easy it is. So he and his buddies are doing extra PT and rucking in the evening. I went thru 30 years ago and I thought it was easy, but not as laid back as he describes. When I dropped him off I saw some fat Captains in the class - but he said a bunch failed the PT test MINIMUMS on day one - for shame. Told him to use the time to heal up and get his legs in better shape (on his own time). The good news is in three weeks I will pin the wings I received in '76 on him - as bloodwings!

BondWells

I had my nephew go through Airborne School in September. He was under a RIP Contract, but talking to him he was also surprised on how easy Airborne School was. I told this is the real Army. I was really surprised on how Airborne School got rid of the Gig Pit, and some of the "other" things.

I too did the Blood Wings. They do this speech on how by a DOD policy the are illegal. WHATEVER. The black Hats from what I saw Can't do bloodwings. I had one "sitting" over me. I was in Uniform, and the Wife was like "Don't you get in trouble". Once again WHATEVER.

Congrad on your SON.

SRT31B · 04-21-2006, 08:12

ALL of my air assault class got blood wings. The AASLT Sgt.s were the ones that started it. Pin 'em on then a good punch to the chest (no backs of course). Then we had to stand in front of the whole company while everyone filed by and gave us a hit, do 10 to the wind and dig our coin out of the dirt with our mouth, and that was just last year. Do they really not do that at Airborne school? Thought that was part of the "right of passage."

**Razor** · 04-21-2006, 13:44

Was AASLT (or ABN within the past 30 or so years, for that matter) really so challenging a course that bloodwings and other associated reindeer games seemed to be a fitting graduation celebration?

FWIW, I went to ABN School 15 years ago and had to do PT in my off-time to stay in shape, so it sounds like not much has really changed, to be truthful.

Warrior-Mentor · 04-21-2006, 14:38

We got bloodwings in '88 when I went through Abn School.

Can't remember getting them at Air Assault in '89...do remember thinking how hard they were trying to imitate Airborne School and thinking it was a joke (the imitation part, not the training itself).

Double timing around during the day, Jump School used to make us say "Airborne" every time the left foot hit the ground.

Air Assault attempted same, except people would have fun with it...

"Air Assault..."

"Table Salt..."

"Willie Gault..."

"Pole Vault..."

"Air Insult..."

Stupid stuff that is funny years later.

BondWells · 04-21-2006, 19:18

bloodwings might be mickey mouse to some...but these were mine and I'll pass them on with meaning, enthusiam, and a tradition he'll honor. The course isn't the point at least for me - it is passing my original wings onto my son. He also told me only a few come off the jump tower in Tower week - they don't require all to do it...instead they spend extra time on the swing landing trainer.

...too bad - the tower was fun..but....I remember all the times they told us, when you feel your feet hit the ground, do your PLF - yeah right - by that time I had my knees in my face....

Warrior-Mentor · 04-21-2006, 20:13

I admit. I got over...was one of the guys who never went off the tower. Course the fact that we had a knuckle head get stuck in the tower and eat most of an afternoon getting him down had something to do with it.

The tower always struck me as more of a carnival ride than actual training.
Some SGM years ago told another SGM:

"I'll bet your Harley that I can get the US Army to build a giant carnival ride and call it training.
I'll tell the Officers it is realistic training using futuristic technology and they'll slurp it up."

"You're on."

...and that's how I think the tower was started.

**Pete** · 04-21-2006, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

...The tower always struck me as more of a carnival ride than actual training. ....

The tower was a ride for, I think, the world fair.

I got to Jump School right at the start of the 4th of July weekend in 74. The only detail I pulled was at the jump tower that weekend for the open house.

We, the detail, were at the tower with the cables. IIRC there were four cables around the skirt and the lift cable. They would haul the parachute, with a bench seat no less, to the top of the tower and un-break the lift cable. The parachute would come down guided by four rings attached to the guide cables and stop with the seat about 3 feet from the ground.

If small kids wanted to ride but the parents didn't we were detailed to ride with the kids. We made many rides to the top that day.

Tower week had nothing for a few of us.

Warrior-Mentor · 04-21-2006, 20:38

The story continues...

"All right SGM, you won the bet. Double or nothing. I'll bet I can get the entire class of jump school students to chant...

'HIT THE HOLE POLEMAN, HIT THE HOLE.'

and no one will file a sexual harrassment complaint."

"This I gotta see. You're on..."

More proof that Airborne school was actually founded just to amuse two SGMs before they retired.

MtnGoat · 04-22-2006, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BondWells

bloodwings might be mickey mouse to some...but these were mine and I'll pass them on with meaning, enthusiam, and a tradition he'll honor. The course isn't the point at least for me - it is passing my original wings onto my son.

Bondwell - It is a get Honor and Tradition pinning of the wings onto our family members. I knew this from being down there in Sept. The whole Tradition thing - its great and it looks really good. They only let Father & Son, so me being an Uncle - We were a No GO. When they call all of the Students Fathers or Grandfathers, I step up and walked out. That's when my wife said, "Don't you get in Trouble". My Nephew wasn't out front, so I had to yell his name out. We both have the same last name, his my Brothers son. So of course I had BlackHats looking at me along with the 1SG coming up to me and looking at my uniform. It was and is a great feeling to pin his wing onto his chest. I know its something that he & I will remember for sometime. Maybe one day It will me doing what your doing one day to my Son.

FYI - I had to fly out that Sunday to go TDY. (Set my orders up the right way)

My Family had to drive back to Bragg themselves. So does it matter? Hell Yes! Be proud Dad