Fort Hood Shooting

[Saturation]

SF-TX,

Thank you for your recent posting- it shows a real issue for mental health professionals. Whomever is attempting to highlight this real issue, specific to this case, is imho WAY off.

Is vicarious traumatization/compassion fatigue real- I will argue yes. In response to such, the mental health professional will often exhibit signs of depression, withdrawal, and pain. Professionals own the responsibility to provide quality ethical care- the instrument of their work is their mind, their compassion, and their knowledge. They therefore must create support systems and respond to this possibility.

I believe the attempts to make this case about combat stress or compassion fatigue are completely off the mark. This sounds to me like an isolated individual, angry & provoked* that did not begin adulthood as a complete personality. Think of an empty, hollow person with doubts and self loathing looking "to fix" it by trying fit in/to be a part of something.

*To be clear- my use of the word provoked is specific to an internal provocation and not from external forces of name calling, etc. that have been mentioned in the media. External forces most likely reinforced this individual through his interpretation/slant of his chosen religion.

In advance- none of above makes it ok or creates a defense of insanity. He made distinct choices time and time again that led him to his time evil.

Respectfully,
Saturation

Originally Posted by Richard

MAJ Hasan should be buried in the Potter's field with the Nazi saboteurs from WW2.

May he heal quickly from his wounds and move quickly to execution. Better yet, just take him up 500' above the west Texas desert and toss him out.

I'd like to go along and hold the door open.

WD

[Mr. Freeze]

I went through a VA PTSD group session last year, not as a Vet but as part of Psych rotation elective. Most of the group were OIF soldiers, with some SE Asia. I think what angers me so much about the mental health aspect (transparent copout that it is) of this case is that all I could think the whole time during the outings/sessions was "you shouldn't have had to see/do/hear/feel that." or something similar. I can attest that the weight of each individual's trauma gets redistributed amongst the group, including those running it, no differently than divvying up med supplies. It can stir you up a bit IMHO, especially when the more reserved, resistant ones finally open up. But, NEVER anger over what they did.

I haven't done any double-blind, randomized, placebo trials, but if I were to guess, people affected by "Contagious PTSD" are 100x more likely to be found hanging in their closet rather than standing over dead Soldiers holding two smoking pistols.

However, 100% probably aren't Muslim terrorists who praise suicide bombing as honorable.

[incarcerated]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...od_massac.html

Sen. Joe Lieberman calls Fort Hood massacre a 'terrorist' act

BY Samuel Goldsmith
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Originally Published:Sunday, November 8th 2009, 11:34 AM
Sen. Joe Lieberman called the Fort Hood massacre an act of "Islamist extremism" - even as top Army brass warned Sunday against guessing at a motive, fearing backlash against Muslim soldiers.

"There are very, very strong warning signs here that Dr. Hasan had become an Islamist extremist and, therefore, that this was a terrorist act," Lieberman (I-Conn) told Fox News on Sunday....

[P36]

Originally Posted by kimberly

My apologies to P36.

It seems the more that is uncovered, the more it is likely the offending shooter planned and executed. Taking into consideration what is being uncovered, it is simple reasoning that he shot 43 people with his religion in mind, whether it was because he didn't want to be deployed on behalf of our country to work against those who believe similarly as he, or other reasons. My opinion.

No apologies necessary.

I don't want anything to hinder the Major getting what's coming to him.

[Utah Bob]

Lieberman is right.
Doesn't matter if Hasan (I won't call him Major) was crazy as a s**t house rat or not.

[Red Flag 1]

FWIW,

The professional psych provider is the therapy. In other health care arenas, meds, and/or surgical intervention are the therapy. Meds used in psych care are a tool to facilitate treatment modalities; the therapist is the prime tool. This is not an easy task, and must be a professional interaction. Psych residencies include training to recognize when the therapist is getting, "too close", or needs to "unpack" with another professional.

As yet, we really don't know what drove the Army Psychiatrist to take the action he is alleged to have taken. Given the years of education and training, he should have had the tools he needed to practice his profession without harm to anyone. I sense that questions arise about the training at WRAMC. Was this Psychiatrist a Board Certified in Psychiatry? Did he even sit his boards? There is news coverage saying there were poor reports generated during his training; if so, how was he sent into practice without closer peer guidance? Was there another senior Psychiatrist with him at Ft. Hood?

Not making excuses here, but there seems to have been enough red flags here to have aborted this. It would be interesting to see if other Psychiatrists have turned to murder(s) to resolve personal conflict in a similar manner.

My $.02.

RF 1

[akv]

Hasan is a traitor, a murderer, and a coward. In Texas of Old he would be swinging from a tall tree. The investigation should not be hindered by political correctness, as a nation we have enough common sense to prevent backlash towards honorably serving Muslim servicemen and law abiding citizens, if Hasan had help they need to be brought to justice too.

The question I have is what lessons will America take from this?

Obama for example the CIC of our military has yet to visit Ft. Hood and is out golfing at Camp David. Easy lesson here.

There are positives to be taken from Fort Hood. I read Officer Munley's aggressive engagement of Hasan stems from training and lessons learned from subsequent analysis of the Virginia Tech Shootings.

America is at war. We have seen enemy attacks on domestic military installations from the Pentagon to Ft. Hood. If we trust our servicemen with weapons on the front, why can't we trust them to carry on bases, when there is clear precedence our military installations are targets?

Aside from Obama's impotence, the most discouraging thing I see from Ft. Hood is the fixation the press has with Hasan's 5.7mm pistol, labeling it a "cop killer" etc. A quick query of the Search Button on this pistol seems to indicate QP's here find nothing extraordinary about the weapon. This type of media hype is the preamble to gun control legislation, (ironic in this case since the base gun control laws contributed to the carnage.)

Finally, the accounts of bravery and sacrifice under fire from the soldiers and LEO's at Fort Hood reinforce my pride in our nation.

[Richard]

Finally, the accounts of bravery and sacrifice from the soldiers and LEO's at Fort Hood reinforce my pride in our nation.

I've read the various news reports and watched Shane on Friday and To Kill A Mockingbird yesterday - helped personify for me the true nature of America's character as portrayed in fact and fiction.

Richard's $.02

And the hits just keep coming... Alleged Fort Hood Shooter Frequented Local Strip Club

[incarcerated]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,5487900.story

Fort Hood shooting suspect's ties to mosque investigated

The FBI and Army are looking into whether Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had an association with militants at the Virginia mosque where two 9/11 hijackers prayed, a source says.
By Josh Meyer
November 9, 2009
Reporting from Washington - The FBI and the Army on Sunday were investigating whether the military psychiatrist suspected in the Ft. Hood shooting rampage had an association with militants at a mosque in Virginia or in cyberspace.

A senior federal law enforcement official said there was no immediate evidence of such a link, nor of any direct connection between the suspected gunman, Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, and terrorist groups or individuals, either in person or online. Hasan is accused of opening fire at a readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, on Thursday, killing 13 and wounding dozens. He reportedly had been depressed about his upcoming deployment to Afghanistan.

But authorities are still scouring "voluminous" hard drives, multiple e-mail accounts and website trails "to see what's out there, and to see what it all means," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. "There's a lot of work being done."

The official said investigators were looking into Hasan's association with the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., in early 2001, about the same time that a radical Islamist prayer leader and two of the Sept. 11 hijackers were there.

The mosque is one of the biggest in the United States, and the official cautioned that thousands of people go there for prayer services and other events. The funeral of Hasan's mother was held there on May 31, 2001, the Associated Press reported.

Authorities were focusing aggressively on whether Hasan more recently had been following the fiery online sermons and blog postings of that imam, Anwar al Awlaki, the official said.

Awlaki, a U.S. citizen, left the United States in 2002 and is believed to be in Yemen. He is actively supporting the Islamist jihad, or holy war against the West, through his website.

Early this morning, after Awlaki's name was publicly linked to Hasan's, a posting on Awlaki's site was titled “Nidal Hassan Did the Right Thing.”

In it, a writer claiming to be Awlaki described Hasan as a hero and "a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."

"Nidal opened fire on soldiers who were on their way to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. How can there be any dispute about the virtue of what he has done? In fact the only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the U.S. army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal," the writer said.

There was no way to confirm immediately whether the posting was actually from Awlaki.

The London Telegraph first reported the potential link between Hasan and the mosque.

In recent days, authorities poring over Hasan's computer, Internet records and multiple e-mail accounts have found evidence that he visited other radical Islamist websites with some frequency, according to several officials familiar with the investigation.

"Obviously, people who visit these websites can be influenced by or affected by them, by the influence of the clerics, as opposed to being directed by them," said the senior federal law enforcement official. "It goes back to his state of mind."

Some counter-terrorism officials and experts said that although Hasan's connections to Awlaki, if any, are unclear, the imam has had a major effect on aspiring violent extremists around the world.

"Awlaki is one of the principal jihadi luminaries for would-be homegrown terrorists," said Evan Kohlmann, a terrorism consultant for the U.S. and other governments. "His fluency with English, his unabashed advocacy of jihad and mujahideen organizations, and his Web-savvy approach are a powerful combination."

Kohlmann said Awlaki's lecture on "Constants on the Path of Jihad" -- based on a similarly named document written by the founder of Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia -- is the "virtual bible for lone-wolf Muslim extremists."

FBI agents and military investigators continued to work methodically to retrace Hasan's steps in an effort to determine what might have set him off and who, if anyone, might have known about his alleged plans.

There was no indication from a thorough search of his computer and other seized evidence that the suspect had any conspirators, federal law enforcement officials said, but they were not willing to rule that out.

Those officials said that Hasan's apparent interest in websites focusing on radical Islamist ideology came at a time when he had grown increasingly -- and publicly -- unhappy with the U.S. war effort and his possible deployment.

"There is nothing that we have found thus far linking him to a terrorist group, but we have intelligence that he made postings in chat rooms," said Scott Stewart, vice president of tactical intelligence for Stratfor, a Texas-based private firm that gathers intelligence for corporations and divisions of the U.S. and foreign governments. He said the group got its information from open-source intelligence on the Internet and elsewhere, and from authorities of various agencies involved in the investigation into Hasan.

"Everything that I'm seeing so far is that he was a lone wolf. It does seem that there was a religious element to this, but there could have been some other workplace violence issues too, since it seems he was a loner who had few friends," Stewart said. "But it's hard to separate sometimes, especially with a lone-wolf actor, where the mental disturbance ends and the religious convictions and political beliefs start."

Meanwhile, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), said he wanted to launch a congressional investigation into the shooting.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman said on "Fox News Sunday." "He should have been gone."

But Army Chief of Staff George W. Casey Jr. urged caution and said it was too early to arrive at conclusions about the suspect's motives. Casey warned on ABC's "This Week" that focusing on Hasan's ties to Islam could "heighten the backlash" against enlisted Muslims.

Hasan's relatives have said that he was taunted for his faith. They have also said that he was a good doctor and, if he was the shooter, must have snapped.

josh.meyer@latimes.com

[Fiercely Loyal]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I find it interesting that President Bush and his wife Laura went to the hospital yesterday to visit the wounded soldiers.

It says a lot about where his heart has really been the entire time. Too bad I never got to meet him.

[Fiercely Loyal]

Originally Posted by akv

Aside from Obama's impotence, the most discouraging thing I see from Ft. Hood is the fixation the press has with Hasan's 5.7mm pistol, labeling it a "cop killer" etc.

As I recall from the FN Demo Guy when he came to Alaska is that the pistol did not share the same ballistic potential the P90 does because of the shortness of the barrel and it does not reach it's full potential. He told me at the time (2004) that they main reason for the pistol to come out was simply the use of ammo between the two platforms.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Red Flag 1

The professional psych provider is the therapy. In other health care arenas, meds, and/or surgical intervention are the therapy. Meds used in psych care are a tool to facilitate treatment modalities; the therapist is the prime tool. This is not an easy task, and must be a professional interaction. Psych residencies include training to recognize when the therapist is getting, "too close", or needs to "unpack" with another professional.

Either the military psychiatrists practice medicine differently than civilian psychiatrists, you are working off old/bad intel or my exposure during my immersion training was at faulty institutions.

Psychologists do the counseling - psychiatrists prescribe the medicatoins and look for side effects.

Most psychiatry residency programs do not teach the counseling and schools of thought that were once a mainstay of their field. There are graduate psychology programs that do all that now. Most psychiatry appointments last 15-25 minutes where thought processes are queried, medications are reviewed, side effects are investigated and dose/med adjustments are made.

My experience may have been different from what you've seen, but it was in the past 5 years and at 4 different institutions in 3 cities in 2 different states.

YMMV.

President Bush has it right. He, unlike so many, is focusing on the wounded and honoring those who died.

I have long been of the opinion that we, as a nation, tend to forget the victims of such situation. We focus on and obsess endlessly over the shooter and his/her motives for thier behavior while just casting those who have been harmed to the wayside in our need for gossip.

The list of those who are dead... read, remember, say thier names out loud they deserve to live again. Last yr on Veteran's Day I went 'crosscountry' as they say at Arlington. I did it to get photos of fall colors and as I walked I said the names of each Vet on the headstone. It let them live again. I walked to the old sections to say those names who had no living families to remember them.

Here are the names so we all, here, can remember and honor our fallen. It really doesn't matter where our soldiers died. They signed, they gave thier lives while in uniform. To me, they are heroes.

The victims from the shooting ranged in age from 62 to 19. One was a lieutenant colonel and five were involved in providing medical services to soldiers

They were identified as:

-- Lt. Col. Juanita L. Warman, 55, of Havre De Grace, Md. She was assigned to the 1908th Medical Company, Independence, Mo.

-- Maj. Libardo Caraveo, 52, of Woodbridge, Va. He was assigned to the 467th Medical Detachment, Madison, Wis.

-- Capt. John P. Gaffaney, 54, of San Diego, Calif. He was assigned to the 1908th Medical Company, Independence, Mo.

-- Capt. Russell Seager, 41, of Racine, Wis. He was assigned to the 467th Medical Company, Madison, Wis.

-- Staff Sgt. Justin Decrow, 32, of Plymouth, Ind. He was assigned to the 16th Signal Company, Fort Hood, Texas.

--Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29, of Kiel, Wis. She was assigned to the 467th Medical Company, Madison, Wis.

-- Spc. Jason Hunt, 22, of Tillman, Okla. He was assigned to the 1st Brigade, Fort Hood, Texas.

-- Spc. Frederick Greene, 29, of Mountain City, Tenn. He was assigned to the 16th Signal Company, Fort Hood, Texas.

-- Pfc. Aaron Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.

-- Pfc. Michael Pearson, 22, of Bolinbrook, Ill. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.

-- Spc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.

-- Pvt. Francheska Velez, 21, of Chicago, Ill. She was assigned to the 15th Combat Support Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.

Mr. Michael Cahill, 62, of Cameron, Texas. He was a civilian employee on Fort Hood.

PVT Velez was 3 months pregnant, her child is to, a victim.

RIP soldiers, thank you for keeping me free!!!

Anne,
an ArmyMom,
Marine Corps (ex)/ wife,
Navy widow
Army Air Force/Air Force dtr