03-24-2005, 09:23
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#151
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,829
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
US in 1901.
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My thoughts exactly.
Wonder what the Depression will look like with a billion people?
Should we airdrop tham a few million copies of some Upton Sinclair stories? "The Jungle", perhaps?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-24-2005, 09:25
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#152
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,829
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Water is or is going to be a huge factor in many countries. Canada is a prime polluter for example. Water in LATAM is a joke.
I am with the bird and berry freaks on doing something about water.
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That is expensive and raises the cost of production.
Let them drink champagne instead.
From each, to each, according to his needs.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-24-2005, 09:25
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#153
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
I think you can get labor over there on some jobs cheaper than if you owned the humans as slaves here. That's a pretty neat trick. Yeah, yeah I know, prevailing wage...
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Never purchase equity in a depreciating asset. Often forgotten axiom of capitalism.
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"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
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jatx is offline
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03-24-2005, 09:38
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#154
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pinehurst,NC
Posts: 1,091
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Quote:
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I am with the bird and berry freaks on doing something about water.
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Do the bird and berry freaks hand in bushes or trees? 
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Let us conduct ourselves in such a fashion that all nations wish to be our friends and all fear to be our enemies. The Virtues of War - Steven Pressfield
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dennisw is offline
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03-24-2005, 14:33
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#155
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
No lawyers, to speak of.
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My firm has an office in Beijing. I think it has 3 lawyers.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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03-24-2005, 14:59
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#156
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
What was the obligation of the U.S. to help people in other countries hit by the recent tsunami with U.S. taxpayer dollars and man-hours?
TR
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States have interests.
- What interests would have been served by U.S. inaction in the wake of this natural disaster?
- What interests were served by U.S. action?
- How might those interests have been served/disserved by other courses of action?
Related historical example: the December 1988 earthquake in the Armenian SSR, which killed 25,000+ and injured more than a half a million. The massive Western response, in the wake of an inadequate Soviet response, starkly demonstrated to millions of Soviet citizens both the bankruptcy of their own system and the superiority of the West.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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03-24-2005, 15:22
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#157
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
My firm has an office in Beijing. I think it has 3 lawyers.
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There you go.
That is probably half of the ones in country. 
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-24-2005, 15:41
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#158
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
States have interests.
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Roger, I understand that.
Those may have been interests, but they were not obligations, unless there are treaties in effect with them that I am unaware of. I am confident that you will enlighten me, if so.
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
- What interests would have been served by U.S. inaction in the wake of this natural disaster?
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Reduction of the national deficit, perhaps? What happened to other nations which did nothing? We had already been castigated for doing too little.
Did China help? Russia? Anything from the Euros approaching the contributions that we made? Anything bad happen to them?
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
- What interests were served by U.S. action?
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The interests of the affected nations. Possible influence on some hearts and minds, though I have seen little reporting on anything other than the usual thanks from the recipients (like the man in the OBL t-shirt in line for US aid).
Did you not read GH's assessment of massive layoffs in the US?
"Harsh? So is life."
Does that only apply to American victims?
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
- How might those interests have been served/disserved by other courses of action?
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We had already been condemned for doing too little. Was the aid of any long-term benefit to US national interests? Did we win any converts in return for the milliions spent? Were there areas to spend that public money and gain more leverage?
The disaster was closer to China and India (which was affected) than it was to us. Was there no regional support from the strongest nations in the area? Did they agree to be of any assistance to us based on our help? The two most populous nations in the world are major recipients of US outsourcing. Did we gain anything in the way of cooperation, concessions, or goodwill from them?
The real question is, is the U.S. not only the world's policeman, but also the world's pocketbook as well?
From the latest recommendation that all of the wealthy nations donate .7% of GDP to the poorest countries, I would suspect that many think we are.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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The Reaper is offline
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03-24-2005, 18:29
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#159
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Guest
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
No unions. No EPA. No OSHA. No Workmans comp. No child labor laws. No minimum wage. Slave labor. No lawyers, to speak of.
Capitalist exploiter's dream. Socialist paradise?
TR
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That's what people were saying about Thailand twenty years ago. Wasn't entirely true, just as it isn't entirely true of China, but there was some truth to it. Thailand managed to get through it and so will China (one of my clients is the largest law firm in China. There are lawyers in China - very, very good ones).
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03-24-2005, 18:35
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#160
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
That's what people were saying about Thailand twenty years ago. Wasn't entirely true, just as it isn't entirely true of China, but there was some truth to it. Thailand managed to get through it and so will China (one of my clients is the largest law firm in China. There are lawyers in China - very, very good ones).
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Was Thailand claiming to be a Maoist Socialist state?
I need to do some reaseach and discover lawyers per 100,000 population in China vs. the U.S.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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03-24-2005, 18:43
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#161
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I need to do some reaseach and discover lawyers per 100,000 population in China vs. the U.S.
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Such research is subject to certain caveats. Certain legal services performed by lawyers in the United States are performed by paraprofessionals (notaries, paralegals, etc.) in other countries. Thus the ratios aren't directly comparable. This applies to Japan, where there are relatively few "lawyers" per se per 100,000, but quite a few more legal professionals not formally called lawyers.
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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03-24-2005, 18:53
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#162
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer
Such research is subject to certain caveats. Certain legal services performed by lawyers in the United States are performed by paraprofessionals (notaries, paralegals, etc.) in other countries. Thus the ratios aren't directly comparable. This applies to Japan, where there are relatively few "lawyers" per se per 100,000, but quite a few more legal professionals not formally called lawyers.
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Roger, saw that caveat on the web site.
Hmm, preliminary research shows 30 lawyers/100,000 in China, and 280/100,000 in the USA. Not sure whether your partners are counted against us, or them, AL, but I think I see one of the factors in the productivity issue.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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03-24-2005, 20:07
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#163
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Guest
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Can I ask a question?
I have read a few articles about China's debt problem and internal corruption. Some analysts speculate China's dependence on cheap credit, guaranteed employment and state-financed, state-owned industry will create a series of crises that will erupt between now and the end of 2006. Supposedly, any one of which could be sufficient to cause an implosion.
If I undserstand correctly, the U.S. is dependant on China to fund our account deficit.
East Asia finances US debt in return for continued unrestricted access to the US market.
With economic troubles looming in China, anyone concerned about a U.S. crash which may not be too far behind?
Just curious.
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03-24-2005, 20:22
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#164
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Why?
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Others have addressed parts of my answer already, but my basic fear is this:
China's interest in shipping lanes is growing. China is working deals for more oil, which makes me wonder what they are planning to do with it and how far they will go to get it.
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“Cubans are running Venezuelan intelligence services, indoctrinating and training the military, and now this. Whoever heard of one country allowing another country to have police powers?” said Otto Reich, the former ambassador to Venezuela under President Ronald Reagan.
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Venezuela and Cuba already have inter-country police powers. What kind of deal will Venezuela cut with China? How will that affect the security along our southern border?
I don't fear a direct war with China, but I do think they will try to push us as far as they can. Any conflict they become involved in will affect us. AL laid out many of the possible areas -- and I am far from an expert on this -- but I don't see how we can keep from being drawn into any conflict that arises. Especially, if we have major corporate investment in any of these countries (China included).
The elephant is dealing with the mice that gnaw us on one hand, and drawing us in to conflicts with mice on the other hand. In both cases, the elephant appears to be directing the action. I don't like that.
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lrd is offline
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03-24-2005, 20:27
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#165
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lrd
Others have addressed parts of my answer already, but my basic fear is this:
China's interest in shipping lanes is growing. China is working deals for more oil, which makes me wonder what they are planning to do with it and how far they will go to get it.
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Check out who OWNS most of the Real Estate that IS the Panama Canal !!!
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