14 Dead, 50 Hurt In Mass Shooting Inside Aurora Movie Theater

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Richard

WARNING: I had to triple the tinfoil lining in my beret after reading this one.

It was staged by the FBI as a follow-up to Fast and Furious just in time for a vote on the UN small arms treaty.



The corn crops may be suffering from a drought, but there will definitely be a bumper crop of nuts this year!

And so it goes...

Richard

Keep in mind Sir, that not all that long ago mentioning Fast and Furious as fact would have got you odd stares, giggles and remarks like 'You're Nuts'.

I am not saying that I disagree with you on this one, but the Government Agencies and the Administration have given the Conspiracy Crowd plenty hard evidence over the past 3 1/2 years (We'll stay out of the Clinton Administration Highlights) that has vindicated some of their claims.

A Government that will knowingly give guns to criminal cartels is an accessory to any crimes committed with those guns. IMO, it is not far fetched that people would believe a Government capable of Fast & Furious would have any issue turning guns on it's own citizenry to achieve a goal.

[Streck-Fu]

IMO, it is not far fetched that people would believe a Government capable of Fast & Furious would have any issue turning guns on it's own citizenry to achieve a goal.

I disagree and think that it is a huge leap from passively letting guns go to actively enabling the willful slaughter of citizens. The idea that some government agent directed this massacre is equivalent to the Bush admin pulling off 9/11.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

I disagree and think that it is a huge leap from passively letting guns go to actively enabling the willful slaughter of citizens. The idea that some government agent directed this massacre is equivalent to the Bush admin pulling off 9/11.

I agree with you, but the Government has set an nefarious example and they are reaping the rewards of their endeavors.

I would argue that the ATF's role in Fast & Furious borders on an active role. While they can plausibly deny they had any intent of causing death, they knew full well what would likely happen with some of the guns. And as the CBS article below mentions ATF's Bill Newell used Fast & Furious press an agenda. Newell was passively just doing his job and following orders.

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as “(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue.” And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: “Bill–well done yesterday… (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...ag=re1.channel


People have died and the Government has lied....all to achieve a goal.

Stuff like that vindicates the conspiracies in the mind of the Tin Foil community and to a growing distrust in the Government.

[BOfH]

Originally Posted by Pete

In other words "Lets keep our focus and we can get 'er done this time - well, maybe after the election".

Mr President, the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, sports or shooting.

I think Suzanna Gratia Hupp said it best, at the 5:08 mark.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by Paslode

I agree with you, but the Government has set an nefarious example and they are reaping the rewards of their endeavors.

I would argue that the ATF's role in Fast & Furious borders on an active role. While they can plausibly deny they had any intent of causing death, they knew full well what would likely happen with some of the guns. And as the CBS article below mentions ATF's Bill Newell used Fast & Furious press an agenda. Newell was passively just doing his job and following orders.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...ag=re1.channel


People have died and the Government has lied....all to achieve a goal.

Stuff like that vindicates the conspiracies in the mind of the Tin Foil community and to a growing distrust in the Government.

CBS News! I thought that the MSM was in the hip pocket of the government. CBS News is about as MS as MSM can get... without being that MSM called MSNBC.

[charlietwo]

http://resist44.com/aurora-theater-s...ponse-analysis

Here's an article analyzing the situation and hypothesizing on armed members in the audience.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

CBS News! I thought that the MSM was in the hip pocket of the government. CBS News is about as MS as MSM can get... without being that MSM called MSNBC.

Sharyl Attkisson is, thus far, proving to be the exception to the current MSM rule - at least with regard to the Fast & Furious investigation.

Good job Ms. Attkisson, with the F&F investigation.

I wonder if she is being audited? Yet?

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by charlietwo

http://resist44.com/aurora-theater-s...ponse-analysis

Here's an article analyzing the situation and hypothesizing on armed members in the audience.

That analysis was pretty good. Not sure about the conclusions of the best place to be in the theater. I would say that if you survive the first few seconds then you should be able to get a good shot soon there after especially when he transitions or had the malfunction from anywhere on the right side of the theater. There is no scale of distance on the analysis and more than 25m starts getting tough for a pistol when you have time to take aim at a range. 10m and in should be a no brainer and you could put a mag into the armor and face in just a few seconds. Primary concern at that point is innocent bystanders.

IIRC, the mall and theater had "No Weapon Stickers" meaning that if caught with a weapon could be considered armed trespass (I'm not familiar with CO law) and that law abiding citizens would probably disarm themselves to see a movie there. That would negate his conclusions unless your right to carry is stated in statutes (FL law gives you the right to carry ANYWHERE not prohibited by law, aka crack and whore houses...or if asked to leave a premises...if you stay it becomes armed trespass).

[tonyz]

No contemplation of armed civilians in this DHS video.

The gun-free zones do appear to offer the bad guy much more time for the slaughter.

Continued - objective - professional analysis of potential armed citizen response to such situations should be interesting, educational and may save lives.

DHS-funded video gives tips to survive a shooter

Friday - 7/27/2012, 7:08am ET
Federal News Radio

After last week's shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., the city of Houston has released a how-to video on surviving a shooter event.

The video was created with funds from the Homeland Security Department.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/473/...vive-a-shooter

[Destrier]

Unfortunately this video ignores the best response available. Set down beverage. Sweep outer garment to side, draw sidearm. Engage with surprise, speed, and violence of action. Threat neutralized, make sidearm safe, holster sidearm, have a seat and wait for the police response team. Finish beverage.

[dfirsty]

Surprisingly not the worst video I've seen. DHS will probably pull all funding since it says its ok to fight.

I also like the clip where it says first responders are not there to evacuate or help the injured but to stop the threat. I think that was a big problem for the Aurora officers. Listening to the dispatch tapes most became fixated on the injured and evacuations instead of going to the threat and stopping it.

link to tapes if it'll work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFuND...e_gdata_player

Derek

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by tonyz

No contemplation of armed civilians in this DHS video.

The gun-free zones do appear to offer the bad guy much more time for the slaughter.

Continued - objective - professional analysis of potential armed citizen response to such situations should be interesting, educational and may save lives.

DHS-funded video gives tips to survive a shooter

Friday - 7/27/2012, 7:08am ET
Federal News Radio

After last week's shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., the city of Houston has released a how-to video on surviving a shooter event.

The video was created with funds from the Homeland Security Department.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/473/...vive-a-shooter

The video was really good, I'm sure someone at DHS just got fired.

What was really great were the responses at the bottom!

Originally Posted by tonyz

No contemplation of armed civilians in this DHS video.

The gun-free zones do appear to offer the bad guy much more time for the slaughter.

Continued - objective - professional analysis of potential armed citizen response to such situations should be interesting, educational and may save lives.

DHS-funded video gives tips to survive a shooter

Friday - 7/27/2012, 7:08am ET
Federal News Radio

After last week's shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., the city of Houston has released a how-to video on surviving a shooter event.

The video was created with funds from the Homeland Security Department.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/473/...vive-a-shooter

Like any good production, creative liberty is at extreme. I like the sound track.

Funny how in their escape the first group of office workers goes up the stairwell. I suppose that move is to sit up there on the roof and wait for the helo evac.

And if they had been trained in the use of fire equipment, discharging the fire extinguisher as the door opened would have been a first good move, IMO, and then whack the guy.

Pulling the fire alarm as you pass it in the hall, hitting the alarms in the elevators, using that rolling copy machine (the one with the wheels on it) as a rolling ram for cover to make escape or ram the guy, grabbing the firehose (usually in the stairwells) and turning on the water full blast in the direction of the shooter...all hypotheticals for this hypothetical.

As long as one is hiding, may as well be dialing 911, and then silence the phone, but they never mention that either.

ETA: Besides, this is only one possible scenario addressed in the video.

[Team Sergeant]

Armed response to this sort of shooting takes a trained individual. Many people that carry concealed carry to defend themselves, not the public. This includes the local police, state and federal agents. They all carry side arms to defend themselves.

Most concealed carry individuals carry a six shooter or a small auto with a one inch barrel, not very accurate and not a good choice against a long gun. These weapons even in the hands of highly trained individuals are almost useless past 10 meters.

Now couple that with the training given by 99.99% of all law enforcement (and 99.99% of concealed carry training) that states "You will only engage threats inside of 21 feet." That is written in stone in probably all 50 states. If you shoot someone past 21 feet with your concealed weapon you can be brought up on some very serious charges.

Add to that that not many people are willing to "charge" an individual armed with a long gun, it takes a mindset that most don't possess.

Waiting for the police to respond to this sort of scenario is not the answer, neither is gun-free zones. Running and hiding will get you a bullet in the back. We need trained individuals that are free to carry just about anywhere and without some of the very restrictive laws or rules of engagement.

Had a trained concealed carry individual fired from the top of the theater at the armed individual 30-40 meters away, in Massachusetts, Illinois, California or New York and many other states he might be sentenced to prison for years.

I can hit a man size target all day at 100 meters with the handgun that I carry concealed, and I don't mind killing bad guys but I ain't going to jail for doing it.

In order for the concealed carry to work for the public it requires better training and less restrictive rules of engagement.
TS

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Now couple that with the training given by 99.99% of all law enforcement (and 99.99% of concealed carry training) that states "You will only engage threats inside of 21 feet." That is written in stone in probably all 50 states. If you shoot someone past 21 feet with your concealed weapon you can be brought up on some very serious charges.

That's astute you mention that 21-ft thing. Back when I was playing the "collect non-res permission slips" game I attended a class where the instructor was trying to emphasize the importance of all-around SA and threat 'management' outside this (in)famous magical Tueller distance. I got the Mattel rubber bayonet, a guy with enough 5.11 gear to match his attitude got the blue gun. I bs'd with the instructor like Maury Wills gettin' a big lead at first and owned this guy bad when I finally started at him from about 18-ft. Kinda like if he'd found himself on the wrong side of a strange town at night....

I think it takes a mindset to begin with, as well as training, to get that 'OO' piece of the loop running faster. I'm no badass but in the above I was already inside his loop even though he knew I was eventually comin' and from what direction.

There's no magic pill but training coupled with your sig line works better for me than the fetal position.