Lara Logan sexually assaulted...

[Guy]

Originally Posted by mugwump

But support both.

There is NO doubt in my mind--"they would have killed me trying too protect her!"

Stay safe.

[rdret1]

I think Ms. Logan is being very courageous being back at work and continuing with her life and career as she appears to be. My hat is off to her, and you as well afchic. IMO, you are both strong willed women.

[DeltaGolf]

Originally Posted by afchic

Echoes, just because Ms. Logan is not handling her attack in the same manner some women would does not mean she is using it to further her career.

Since my rape, I have spent many hours relaying my attack, and how I got over it. Hopefully what I learned helped other women either prevent it from happening to them, or helping others being able to deal with it. Who is it to say she is not taking to the airwaves to do the same thing? Would you say I was using my rape to further my career?

We are all not the same, we all react differently to different things. I do not think it is fair of you to be judging her because she is handling her attack in a public manner, just because it is not how you would do it if it were you.

Very well said, afchick.

I have great respect for victims like you and Ms. Logan who break the silence and speak about their attacks. Ms. Logan has the advantage of a public platform with which to educate and dispel the view that being a rape victim is something to be ashamed of.

Silence only perpetuates the myth that victims somehow brought the assault on themselves. Rape victims should be encouraged to speak out. Hopefully, Ms. Logan's interview will help others.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by DeltaGolf

Very well said, afchick.

I have great respect for victims like you and Ms. Logan who break the silence and speak about their attacks. Ms. Logan has the advantage of a public platform with which to educate and dispel the view that being a rape victim is something to be ashamed of.

Silence only perpetuates the myth that victims somehow brought the assault on themselves. Rape victims should be encouraged to speak out. Hopefully, Ms. Logan's interview will help others.

Or, maybe I'm just dumb!

Lara Logan put herself in a position that this could happen. Look at the goddamn video!

I've been in some fucked-up crowds before and till this day...I avoid them SOBs!

If they'd gave me a choice:

#1. Go into a ME country with a uprising....

Or

#2. Run through a KKK meeting...

I'd take #2 in a heartbeat!

Stay safe.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

I've had it with the PC BS. Victim hell - she did everything wrong that she possibly could have. The first lesson any intelligent person learns is avoidance. This is as blatant a case as has ever existed of the victim sharing a considerable measure of responsibility for the assault. She is an experienced world traveler with a high degree of cultural awareness. She knew the risks and chose to ignore them. She deliberately put herself in harm's way. She was thrown out of country and chose to return "for the story". She chose to disregard warnings, failed to employ basic personal security measures, went into the thick of an emotionally charged mob, and paid a price for it. A little situational awareness, some common sense, simply avoiding the situation in the first place, and she would have been relatively safe. It's time to acknowlege that bad things happen to people who do stupid things. And stupid people need to accept some responsibility when their stupidity gets them in trouble. It's an aspect of Darwin.

Concur. However, I'm saddened by her admission of ignorance. I do not see high degree of cultural awareness or calculated risk.
From the interview:
Logan: I had no idea how endemic that it is so rife, so widespread, that so many Egyptian men admit to sexual harassing women and think it's completely acceptable.
Logan: That women never complain about incidents of sexual violence because you don't want someone to say, "Well women shouldn't be out there." But I think there are a lot of women who experience these kinds of things as journalists and they don't want it to stop their job because they do it for the same reasons as me - they are committed to what they do. They are not adrenaline junkies you know, they're not glory hounds, they do it because they believe in being journalists.

Then go in with the expectation that assault is part of the job, much like a soldier knows getting shot at is in the job description. Poor SA, poor cultural awareness, and so on. I could see this thread has been polarized. I'm trying my best to agree with her stance but can't help but to recall a definition I read once: A feminist is defined by a female who believes she can walk buck naked to a bike bar and not suffer any sexual assault be it physical, verbal, mental, or emotional. Idealistic? Yes. Commendable to advance gender equality, bla bla bla? Maybe. Realistic? NO! Heck-freakin-yes, women, especially one who sticks out with blonde hair and cleavage, should not be out there among ME male mob frenzy whose female harrasment record is well documented! So she noticed how the women who rescued her were dressed. Lightbulb going off there?
If she were my mother/sister/wife/any other female SO, I would not let her go out there. Is this another form of female-liberty oppression masked as protection? Give me a break!

Willfull ignorance or steadfast idealism in the face of big, bad, mean misogynists?

Originally Posted by Guy

Or, maybe I'm just dumb! Lara Logan put herself in a position that this could happen. Look at the goddamn video! I've been in some fucked-up crowds before and till this day...I avoid them SOBs!

If they'd gave me a choice:

#1. Go into a ME country with a uprising....

Or

#2. Run through a KKK meeting...

I'd take #2 in a heartbeat!

Concur. I was in a certain 3rd world country when an engineering expo featured catwalk and German models. The place was packed by mob in the hundreds who broke the front gate earlier. The way the crowd reacted as the models came with more and more revealing outfit caused me to be concerned for their safety. Hell, I was concerned for my and my dad's safety. The expo speaker had to calm the crowd down for over 30 min to let the event continue. Some places just have hard time accepting or acknowledging Western culture, and for females (and males) to go there expecting decency as defined back home, that IMHOO, is willful ignorance.

Originally Posted by afchic

Hopefully what I learned helped other women either prevent it from happening to them, or helping others being able to deal with it. Who is it to say she is not taking to the airwaves to do the same thing?

I do not see how her interview prevents other from suffering the same fate. She acknowledged nothing wrong on her part. Dealing with it, yes. This is what breaks my heart. SANE (sexual assault nurse examiner) course teaches that you never, ever blame the victim. You assure safety and tell her that whatever she (or he) did is right because she's still alive. I have no problem telling the victim that. Telling potential-victim likewise does them no good. Is it any surprise there are no shortage of new victims?

Again, I'm trying my best to agree with her. Perhaps a good analogy is missionaries who knowingly go to hostile tribe, got killed, then they got labeled as stupid. For example, those who got killed at the hand of the Waodanis. However, they did expect violent response and went armed. They chose not to engage following their conviction. The analogy ends there. From Mrs Logan own admission and the comment that she reported safely for at least an hour, I gather she really did expect the crown to sing kombayah along with her. I feel sorry for what she went through, and sorrier for the blatant Darwinian aspect. Many more will follow her footsteps. Life is tough, it's tougher......

[DeltaGolf]

Originally Posted by Guy

Or, maybe I'm just dumb!

Lara Logan put herself in a position that this could happen. Look at the goddamn video!

I've been in some fucked-up crowds before and till this day...I avoid them SOBs!

If they'd gave me a choice:

#1. Go into a ME country with a uprising....

Or

#2. Run through a KKK meeting...

I'd take #2 in a heartbeat!

Stay safe.

I don't disagree with you, Guy. On the other hand, if you were given orders to infiltrate the ME country, I'm 100% sure you would do so without hesitation. Logan's job was go to the ME and report on the uprisings. She did her job. I could be wrong, but it doesn't sound like she jumped into a frenzied riot. It sounds more like a relatively mild protest exploded around her. Now, if her security detail advised her to split and she refused, that's different. But I'd still say the blame rests solely with the animals in the mob.

\

[rdret1]

Originally Posted by DeltaGolf

But I'd still say the blame rests solely with the animals in the mob.

\

I agree with this statement. Yes, she may have gone into a situation that she would have better avoided. By that way of thinking, a soldier would never go into combat; a fireman would never run into a burning building; a police officer would never run to the gunfire; etc.

There are people who are driven to perform tasks that others would think ludicrous to attempt. A missionary will go into a primitive, possibly dangerous cultural area because he/she feels compelled to spread the Gospel, no matter the consequences.

Would she have been safe if she had stayed out of the crowd? Probably. Was that a risk she accepted as part of her job as a journalist? Maybe. Was the attack something she shares any responsibility for? Absolutely not! Not any more than a soldier shares responsibility for an IED which injures or kills him. The responsibilty lies soley with the scum who perform the act.

[The Reaper]

I have a problem with people comparing soldiers with journalists.

I don't see that close relationship.

TR

[PSM]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I have a problem with people comparing soldiers with journalists.

I don't see that close relationship.

TR

Concur: Jennings/Wallace Ethics in America

Pat

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by PSM

Concur: Jennings/Wallace Ethics in America

Pat

An excellent example of the moral divide that exists between some journalists and members of the military.

Personally, I was nauseated watching and listening to the Mike Wallace response. I will not speak ill of the dead.

Thank you for posting.

[rdret1]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I have a problem with people comparing soldiers with journalists.

I don't see that close relationship.

TR

It has nothing to do with a relationship between soldiers and journalists. It refers to the drive, direction and committment people feel for what they believe is right and what they do. Soldiers and journalists were not the only examples I gave.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I have a problem with people comparing soldiers with journalists.

I don't see that close relationship.

TR

Can.feel.the.flames.coming.....But,just.as.a.humbl e.civilian.who.loves.OUR.military,I.agree.with.T's .post.....

Thought.Ialready.posted.this....but.maybe.not.....

Am.just.in.disagreement.of.Logan's.choice.to.go.ri ght.back.in.where.she.was.assulted!

Does.it.not.scream.to.anyone.else.that.purse.strin gs.a.k.a."her.job".are.on.the.line?

I.feel.for.her.

Holly

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by PSM

Concur: Jennings/Wallace Ethics in America

Pat

Pat--

That's a good clip.

FWIW, the full video, part of the Ethics in America series, is available here and part II of the broader discussion is available there.

[tom kelly]

Don't go to a gunfight without a gun; Even better bring some friends with guns, The more the better eg go with the 75th Ranger Regiment, that is a lot of guns.....TK