Jesus at The Mall

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by ruth nasrullah

Please give me a break.

The break area is in the deep end of the pool. That said, I promised myself not to jump into this maelstrom, but I never listen to my better judgement. That aside, let me express my outrage to you.

You choose to be offended by the religious expression of others. No offense is intended, so it is your choice...you wish to move through our society untouched by the beliefs of others. That is not realistic. Your intolerance toward the religious beliefs of others is insulting to me. I spent a good part of my adult life maintaining these freedoms for Americans, you included. There are those who participate in this forum that have shed blood and lost limbs n the defense of these freedoms. I see your attitude as nothing less than callous disrespect, akin to spitting on us. As the son of a man who fought in three wars to defend this country and the rights that you seem to selectively enjoy, as the descendant of men who fought to establish these rights, my feeling is that you would piss on the graves of these men. I am that deeply offended.

You seem to rant and recant. That is a privilege of living in this society. It does not lend credibility to your position(s), but c'est le guerre. You are a consumer of freedoms provided by others. And, I might add, you are at leisure to enjoy all the freedoms of being an American and still practice a religion mired in the Sixth Century. You can pick your rights and beliefs, ala carte. It is the American way.

You do not seem to be unlike my ex-wife, who converted to Buddhism, became a vegetarian and renounced violence, war, militarism and all who practice those endeavors...she also renounced materialism...she did not renounce the 43% of my military pension she is "entitled" to, nor did she move out of the $400K house we lived in...ain't American great?

[GratefulCitizen]

Ruth Nasrullah:

It would seem that your primary focus is on your own feelings and how you are affected by events.

Communication involves both understanding and being understood.
It would seem that you are only interested in being understood.

The men for whom this site was created most certainly understand you, that is part of their expertise.
Without referring to your own feelings or beliefs, would you be able to describe how your comments/actions affect them?

This would demonstrate the "understanding" part of communication on your part.

Just curious.

[Ambush Master]

Maybe we need to cut and paste this thread into HER BLOG!!!

Perhaps then, she would answer all of the questions!!

[ruth nasrullah]

I apologize - my answer was in post 147.

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

Exactly in which post?!?! Please specify by Post #, this is approx# 155, also please reply to #138
!!!

[The Reaper]

There are some great questions being posed here.

Hopefully, Ms. Nasrullah will soon find the time to respond to them.

I would really like to get her response to how she feels as an American Muslim woman. Since most of the interpretations I have seen of the Koran indicate that women are not even second-class citizens, but are chattel property suitable only for breeding purposes, does she accept that her husband is her master and she can be physically assaulted and quickly disposed of should she displease him? Or does her American upbringing mean that she considers herself to be the peer and equal of her husband, subject to the laws of the United States, not sharia? If she has daughters, would she accept them being married off before they even reach puberty to much older men who are practicing polygamists? Not trying to embarass anyone, I just do not honestly see how the two cultures can be reconciled to the satisfaction of either.

To the PS.com members asking their own questions, please be respectful and patient.

TR

[ruth nasrullah]

Hello, The Reaper. Yes, that is a worthy goal and I don't see it as incompatible with Islamic values. I don't know a lot about the concept of the "dhimmi," but my understanding is that it applies only within in an Islamic government. I hear "dhimmitude" used frequently by critics of Islam who assert that all Muslims seek to give non-Muslims second-class status of some sort. I have never heard of such a thing from Muslims.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Should all Muslims, worldwide, accept that Christians and Jews, as people of The Book, have a right to coexist without oppression or dhimmitude?

TR

[T-Rock]

What I said was that if a basic requirement of my religion was prohibited by law, I would have to make a choice between staying here or moving to a place where that requirement was not illegal - which in this hypothetical could be Canada or Mexico, not necessarily a country where Islam is the dominant faith.

Hello Ma'am (Ruth), the above statement intrigues me...as codified by Shariah Law, do you think homosexuals should face capital punishment?

Does Shariah Law trump our Constitution?

Thanks in advance, T-Rock

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by akv

I imagine being an American Muslim right now is a similar experience to being a Japanese American in 1942...

I'd put the year at 1919/20.

My $0.02.

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by lksteve

That said, I promised myself not to jump into this maelstrom, but I never listen to my better judgement. That aside,

Me too, on both counts. Oh well. . .

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

Ruth Nasrullah:

It would seem that your primary focus is on your own feelings and how you are affected by events.

Well, it is a blog. You think you hear the Morris Albert song reading Ruth's blog? You ought to try my Daughter-In-Law's blog . . .

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

I posted at least once that as Ruth was free to ask the manager to turn the music down, he was also free to tell her to go fly a kite. He didn't do that. He turned the music down (or off). That was, ultimately, his choice.

Everyone seems to be ignoring that fact, and instead attacking Ruth's choice of religion.

People disagree with each other, and that they can do so loudly and openly is one of the many great things about this country. That they can also openly practice whatever religion they want is something else to celebrate.

When we start telling her that she needs to move out of the country because we disagree with her, I think (IMHO) that we are belittling the rights that so many on this site fought for, and others have died for.

Perhaps not everyone, Counsellor.

[akv]

Originally Posted by Normalgirl550

Everyone seems to be ignoring that fact, and instead attacking Ruth's choice of religion.

People disagree with each other, and that they can do so loudly and openly is one of the many great things about this country. That they can also openly practice whatever religion they want is something else to celebrate.

When we start telling her that she needs to move out of the country because we disagree with her, I think (IMHO) that we are belittling the rights that so many on this site fought for, and others have died for

Not everyone Ma'am.

[ruth nasrullah]

Sir, if I may I'd like to address the topic of being an American Muslim woman from a broader perspective. I have to preface my answer by saying that I am not an expert in religious affairs and there are many questions about Islamic belief and practice that I simply don't know enough to answer, or hesitate to answer for lack of knowledge. I leave that as a standing caveat to all my comments.

Although it's been called whining and self-centeredness on this thread, the topic I can best speak about is the experience of being an American Muslim woman, and that is what I try to stick to. I like to think there is something of value in writing about that. And since you've asked about my feelings, that's what I will discuss.

I was raised in a liberal environment without religious practice and little to no self-identification as a member of any religion (my father being Jewish and my last name being very Jewish constituted the only tie I ever felt to a particular faith). Growing up in the 60s and 70s, the women's "liberation" movement and the concept of sexual freedom very much informed the values I acquired. The public education system I was taught in held the assumption that teenagers would have sex, and so rather than teach us that abstinence was a valid choice, they taught us how to avoid getting pregnant or getting STDs. All this heavily influenced my self-perception as a woman. When I embraced Islam I entered a belief system which, while not as heinous as what you describe, does have well-delineated gender roles and strong restrictions on sexual activity outside marriage - both of which, of course, clash to some extent with the values I was raised with.

As I mentioned in an earlier comment on this thread, I came to Islam because of its strict monotheism, the beauty and rationality of belief in one God who creates and sustains all that exists. That is unshakable, and no matter what direction or school of thought I follow in my spiritual life, that is the bedrock both of Islam and of my belief system.

So as a Muslim i have a few basic articles of faith and "pillars" of practice, but beyond those basics there are numerous, varied ways to live life as a Muslim. Sunni...Shia...Sufi...Salafi...Hanafi/Hanbali/Maliki/Shafii...there is a range, from following a particular scholar to making individual decisions on how to incorporate Qur'an and sunnah into one's life. Many times those choices are influenced by regional, cultural, familial or other external factors. Many times they are based on limited knowledge or education.

As an American, I enjoy the greatest freedom to make those choices. Yes, I can be similarly influenced by the people whom I spend the most time with - whether secular or religious leaders - or by cultural influences I associate with. But I can freely change my mind and there is no official entity that can force me not to, and no larger culture to make it infeasible for me to change my mind or way of life.

Getting back to my liberal upbringing...As a woman, there are indeed aspects of Islam that run counter to the values I was raised with - and in some cases the values held by the majority of American citizens. There are also some that enrich my life as a woman. But as in other aspects of Islam there is a spectrum of choices. Because clothing is often held as a symbol of women's roles in Islam (simply because it's visible, in my opinion), I can use that as an example: niqab/abaya/hijab/no hijab/conservative dresses/jeans. And as in previous examples, as an American I am free to make those choices without fear of retribution. (A choice, BTW, being eroded in some western European countries, but that's a topic for another day.)

I haven't given too many specific examples here, partly because of the length of this comment but also partly because I want to keep my remarks general and not sidetracked by particulars. Hopefully I have nonetheless accurately shared my experience and opinions as an American Muslim woman.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

There are some great questions being posed here.

Hopefully, Ms. Nasrullah will soon find the time to respond to them.

I would really like to get her response to how she feels as an American Muslim woman. Since most of the interpretations I have seen of the Koran indicate that women are not even second-class citizens, but are chattel property suitable only for breeding purposes, does she accept that her husband is her master and she can be physically assaulted and quickly disposed of should she displease him? Or does her American upbringing mean that she considers herself to be the peer and equal of her husband, subject to the laws of the United States, not sharia? If she has daughters, would she accept them being married off before they even reach puberty to much older men who are practicing polygamists? Not trying to embarass anyone, I just do not honestly see how the two cultures can be reconciled to the satisfaction of either.

To the PS.com members asking their own questions, please be respectful and patient.

TR

[ruth nasrullah]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

There are some great questions being posed here.

Hopefully, Ms. Nasrullah will soon find the time to respond to them.

I would really like to get her response to how she feels as an American Muslim woman. Since most of the interpretations I have seen of the Koran indicate that women are not even second-class citizens, but are chattel property suitable only for breeding purposes, does she accept that her husband is her master and she can be physically assaulted and quickly disposed of should she displease him? Or does her American upbringing mean that she considers herself to be the peer and equal of her husband, subject to the laws of the United States, not sharia? If she has daughters, would she accept them being married off before they even reach puberty to much older men who are practicing polygamists? Not trying to embarass anyone, I just do not honestly see how the two cultures can be reconciled to the satisfaction of either.

To the PS.com members asking their own questions, please be respectful and patient.

TR

Sir, I've responded to this in post 186 - hopefully when you see the length of my comment you'll understand why I'm taking so much time in answering!

These are important issues and I want to be sure my comments have some depth to them.

[Pete]

This thread is begining to get a bit crowded.

Many asking questions of only one.

To get a bit more focus I'll ask all the non-QPs to stop posting in this thread - for a while.

After Ms Nasrullah gets caught up we can continue with women's rights, Darfur, Nigeria, Iran, etc, etc, etc - and Turkey's slid from a secular nation.

[ruth nasrullah]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Very intresting you were raised in a very liberal enviroment during that time frame. A fact I am not surprised at. An observation of mine is the culture you were raised in while professing being open minded in fact are very close minded with anyone that does not agreee with their views are called close minded nazi. One of the big things that happen in that culture or sub culture actually are they are easly offended. They are offended when people pray in school, offended when people show their support for wars etc.

How does this involve you. Well you seem to be offended easly when you are faced with or see something you do not agree with or believe in. IMHO your emotional reaction to anything christain or against your beliefs stems from your upbrininging of intolerance not because you of Islam. If you had embraced Christain faith you would be intolerant of Islam in the same emotional way. Don't take this as a slam on you or an attack, just an observation. I am not even saying you are a bad person. None of us are perfect. I certanly have my faults.

Anyway back to our regular programming.

You are 100% right on target. Absolutely correct.