On the Run

[The Reaper]

No worries, grog.

When I went through SF survival training, we were dumped in the woods for five days with our uniform and LBE, a chicken or a rabbit, a large knife and a pocket knife, a handful of 550 cord, and a pack of paper matches in a ziploc. They also gave us a list of projects to accomplish, like building traps, snares, fish traps, fish hooks, a shelter, a reflecting wall for the fire, etc.

I used a Kabar as the large knife for shelter construction, splitting firewood, and all of the other camp chores that required a large blade. The rest of the time, I was using a Swiss Army Knife, because the multi-tool had not been invented yet.

I used that SAK for all of the small whittling tasks, skinning and gutting the rabbit, cleaning fish, etc.

While a big blade is handy for some tasks (and if I could only have one, it would be a large knife), there are many tasks that a small knife is much better suited for.

Not to mention the pliers, scissors, screwdrivers, can and bottle openers, saws, file, wirecutters, etc.

If you put a Leatherman or a SAK on your belt, perhaps with a piece of ferrocerium rod and a Micro-light on the lanyard, I think you might not even notice that you were carrying it until you needed it. The multi-tool is a no-brainer for this scenario.

I think most of you have viable plans. I would challenge you to take a weekend off this year and go camping for a couple of days and nights with your BoB. There is no better way to identify the deficiencies in your kit than to try and live with it.

FF, a good pellet rifle weighs as much as a real rifle. A .22LR pistol would give you a lot more range and power, and would weigh less as well. Suppressed, it would be almost as quiet as the pellet rifle. Just something to think about. Don't forget a water carrier of some sort and a water purification technique. Good costume, but I think you would still stand out.

Chaplain, I think you have to snag a horse or a vehicle if they are on site in five minutes. You could not sprint to the few trees in the picture in the time allotted, so if the creekbed is not viable, and a concealed route out of the area to another concealed area, you have to be mounted.

To respond to your question, BO, I think people deep in a metropolitan area and on foot are pretty much screwed, unless they can get out ahead of time or can gather a gang superior to the existing gangs that are going to rule the streets. I like your choice for a stealth weapon, but I would definitely opt for a compact semi-auto rifle as well. Maybe a short, folding stock AK or shorty M-4, assuming the city leadership would permit you to own such a thing. Under the big coat of course.

This brings up another point. There are times you want to blend in and look like everyone else, and there are times you want to look like you are well-equipped to defend yourself and ready to do so. It is up to you to develop the SA to know when is the right time for each. If the street urchins can shoot straight, and you have to go through miles of them to reach a safe zone, unless you have a group of warriors, I think the odds are not in your favor.

There are a couple of excellent forums that describe life in major cities during recent economic or political break-downs, and those who survived to write about it mostly stayed in their homes, venturing out only to forage. You have to hope that you do not look like you have sufficient wealth (not just money, food, ammo, fuel) to make it worth their time and lives to get what you have. If I thought I would lose more of my people than your resources I could recover would replace, I would not attack unless I was desperate.

This is also a good time to point out that letting people know you have resources is a good way to lose them. Better to appear poor and run down when TSHTF. Anyone outside your group you feed or give items to is a potential leak and will be back for more, either begging, or with someone else who wants to take what you have.

One of the reasons I offered a scenario that required moving was that there is no weight or movement penalty associated with staying home. You could assume a Ma Deuce on the roof with 10,000 rounds and a moat filled with alligators in that situation, but you can't really take that with you. I don't think a .22 by itself is a good course of action, but as long as it made you think about what you really need to survive, it was worth it.

TR

[therunningwolf]

TR,

Question, just out of curiosity really. Outside of firearms or your daily carry items, what six items in your pack would you consider absolutely necessary in order to complete this scenario?

I plan out what I carry into the woods around six items with everything else ( season/ situation dependent) being comfort items. I'm just curious what other more experienced individuals would choose to see how it differs from my own choices.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by therunningwolf

TR,

Question, just out of curiosity really. Outside of firearms or your daily carry items, what six items in your pack would you consider absolutely necessary in order to complete this scenario?

I plan out what I carry into the woods around six items with everything else ( season/ situation dependent) being comfort items. I'm just curious what other more experienced individuals would choose to see how it differs from my own choices.

I EDC a lot more gear than usual, so this list is based on what I think most people would need.

1. Firemaker
2. Water purification and storage
3. Knife
4. Cordage
5. First aid kit
6. Shelter

I think the first four are absolute requirements, the last two could be debated.

TR

[therunningwolf]

That's similar to my thoughts.

1. Firesteel
2. Knife
3. Cordage
4. Poncho
5. Klean Kanteen
6. TP

The first three are always on me with the last three in a pack I keep close. I've found these to be the hardest things to improvise. As for the TP, it's not a life or death thing but as I told a buddy once, spend a week or two out in the sticks and wiping your butt with leaves gets real old real quick. (Especially if you can't identify poison ivy, had a guy I was at Shelby with do that. It was funny at first, till it spread. At least he won't ever forget what poison ivy looks like.)

Thank you for the reply Sir.

[mdpatterson]

But I just didn't articulate what I meant by saying my best chances for survival may be a team effort living where I do. You nailed what I was trying to say in a few posts back with, "BO, I think people deep in a metropolitan area and on foot are pretty much screwed, unless they can get out ahead of time or can gather a gang superior to the existing gangs that are going to rule the streets."

My point was not to bug in, but rather get a group of trusted and trained individuals together and then get out of town together. That's why I would love to network with others in my area in a similar situation.

Now to try and correct my bad, I'll hit up my choice of weapons (Just weapons for the moment.....no gear). Also these choices are assuming I don't have a group and am on my own.

1) Post sample MP5 PDW with Gemtech Vortex quick detach suppressor. 6 preloaded mags all with 147 (This is always in a smaller go bag with a few other essentials). This gives me the option to easily conceal, attack with semi or 3 round burst if the need to attack comes up, and to go loud and FA if in a defending position......I'm guessing this would make most people think twice about advancing.

2) S&W 360PD. This is always with me to start with, and the weight of it loaded isn't even enough to notice in a front pocket. I would take maybe an extra 15 .357 rounds in a cargo pocket.

3) One of my suppressed .22lr pistols and plenty of ammo along with my Browing Buckmark rifle with the same detachable suppresseor. The suppressed pistol would be concealed, but in a position to be easily drawn. The Buckmark has a great optic on it and by far makes the least noise of anything I have ever fired but would be in outer gear until I reached my destination (It's compact and doesn't weigh much).

4) Another post sample LWRC with a SPR upper. ACOG with RMR optic, Surefire Suppressor, and 6 preloaded pmags. Although I would probably never need to use this in FA, it's an option I have so why not take it just in case. I know I have not gotten in to gear yet, but this would be taken down and placed in part of my outer gear until I reached my destination.

That's about all I would take trying to escape a city alone. I hate leaving out a good shotgun, a longer range rifle and my favorite .45's but I would try and get out by blending in rather than showing my cards. If I were to be confronted in this scenario, it would be a bad day for those looking at me as a victim because that MP5 hangs in a sling that allows me to draw it just as fast as any handgun.

I know this may sound like overkill on weapons, but I got them all out and even with the added gear that I would be humping, the total weight of these weapons would be no problem.

Mike

[Toaster]

I took the lil lady out hiking and have discovered that she doesn't do well with a 20lb pack. Something about her yankee upbringing and this southern heat...

Weapons:

AR-15: 9lbs, Surefire, iron sights, sling, angled foregrip

S&W 29

XD .45

S&W J-frame

Ruger 10/22 takedown has own backpack lil lady will carry

Ammo:

5.56/.223, 7 loaded mags, 480 rounds in military style bandoleers on stripper clips.

.45 - 2 boxes of 230gr HP and two loaded magazines one in pistol

.44 a box of hard to find sought after ammo 20rds

.38 1 speed clip 1 speed loader 1 box of 20 hollowpoints

.22LR 1 brick 325 rds 2 30rd mags, 3 10 rd mags

Plan

Grab the BOB, throw ammo in, throw in .44. Move out quickly to nearby woodline, once fairly certain I won't be engaged breakdown AR and stick it into bag. All the while heading over to the closest local pipehitters I know. While I could try to convert the apartment complex I live in into a firebase with some locals....Not the best idea. I would be concerned with getting out of the area ASAP. I think it'd take three minutes to get out the door....

I have the extra ammo and "useless" pistol for trading value and to help local pipehitters. The missus would be carrying a relatively empty backpack, if I had her carrying anything. She can't move very well under weight.

Should the raiding party be local thugs I would use cell phone as primary means for commo...Should it be random gov't agency...well...

Should rendevous with pipehitters fail...I can see much Providencial help, my rugged good looks, and people skills to help my wife and I to get to the target point.

All in all, I dislike the scenario and pray it never happens.