The "Last Hard Class" is coming

[sinjefe]

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

A very slim chance of a positive side, but, hear me out.

Only people that attend the Ranger School actually understand what is involved and how the training is beneficial to operations. If female soldiers are allowed to attend and get that insight and first-hand knowledge of what the course entails and what life would be like in an operational Ranger unit, they would be in a much better position to support those Ranger units.

I learned just how ineffective I was as an Intelligence Officer when I had my first flight in an F-16. The target photo I proudly handed to my pilot as we stepped to the aircraft was completely useless at 25K feet. I just didn't understand what he actually needed until I was in a position to actually experience how he operated.

Hopefully the Army will use this change in a positive way and not a political posture to try to get more support for a particular candidate.

I respect that point of view...but that has to be the dumbest reason I have ever heard for destroying an institution like RS!

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

A very slim chance of a positive side, but, hear me out.

Only people that attend the Ranger School actually understand what is involved and how the training is beneficial to operations. If female soldiers are allowed to attend and get that insight and first-hand knowledge of what the course entails and what life would be like in an operational Ranger unit, they would be in a much better position to support those Ranger units. I learned just how ineffective I was as an Intelligence Officer when I had my first flight in an F-16. The target photo I proudly handed to my pilot as we stepped to the aircraft was completely useless at 25K feet. I just didn't understand what he actually needed until I was in a position to actually experience how he operated.

Hopefully the Army will use this change in a positive way and not a political posture to try to get more support for a particular candidate.

That all sounds well and good except for the fact that the course will have to be watered down in order for women to be able to complete it. If it was only about insight and knowledge we would all be Rangers, we could get our tabs from some on-line course. Special Operations Forces are just that "SPECIAL" and we need to keep it that way.

[Badger52]

Not a Ranger & don't play one on TV. Interesting linked article at the blog.
Question:

"peer" reviews?

Also, does the group believe, as mentioned, they'll see an operational unit, or is this just another ticket-punched to co-opt a whole demographic? What happens when some other subset comes along and says, "well, just 'cause I couldn't get through the RPFT, it's not fair... that she could and now I don't have the same opportunities in my career as her..."
ad nauseum

I want my standing Army lean, razor sharp, it's not managed like a damn Powerpoint profit-center, the collective will of the American people understands that it costs ALOT of money and, thus, the country WILL take pause before unsheathing it. I guess I'm missin' something; this don't look like that. [/rant]

[Snaquebite]

Interesting article...Not sure where the info comes from or how accurate.

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814

[XavierR]

As a non RS grad, this may be stepping from my lane but I am confused.

For a 17-21 year old female to max the APFT she is required to do 42 push ups, and run 2 miles in 15:36 which is a 7:48 pace (39min 5 mile at the same pace).

The published minimums for Ranger School are 49 push ups, and 5 miles in 40 minutes.

So a 17-21 year old female who maxes the APFT would, at the same time, fail to meet the Ranger School standard for push ups, and meet the running standard by a minute if they maintained their 2 mile pace for 5 miles.

The Army is also reported to have dropped pull ups from the upcoming new PT test because women will be unable to do enough to make it worthwhile. Yet Ranger School requires 6 pull ups as the minimum.

I think it will be interesting to see what the new Army PT test standards will be.

[Wolf07]

Two cents.

I've been by some "stellar" females who score 370 plus on their PT, run fast, et cetera. I have dated a USOEC wrestler, one of the top female athletes in the world- and had the chance to run around with some of the NCAA's fleet footed ladies. And every time, EVERY time, they have disappointed.

Supposedly they are some of the best in the nation at what they do- for their gender. I say that without apologies for genetic differences or political correctness. They just can't measure up to the performance measures.

I am well aware of my place, my lack of experience. I am also aware that for the last 4 years I have torn myself to pieces in order to get the opportunity to do these things. The last thing I want to see after finally getting there is one of these "specially selected females" to be there.

[DIYPatriot]

My wife is an MP, a true hard ass that nailed a 280 APFT a few weeks ago. She chose MP so she could be closer to the front, etc. I asked her how she felt about this and her response was:

"What the hell are they thinking? If I was a Ranger, I would be so f****** pissed right now that I couldn't see straight. I'm sick of these political BS moves by our current chief and his office b/c that's undoubtedly where this came from. It's total BS. Why the f'k don't they just go ahead and issue a Ranger tab to everyone that makes it off the bus at Basic so they will never feel left out."

Her email went on to say other things and even dropped into the realm of FET, but you get the idea. I was just curious about a female's perspective and my wife never minces words, regardless of how she perceives my views.

Just wanted to share her thoughts and add to the thread.

[plato]

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

Only people that attend the Ranger School actually understand what is involved and how the training is beneficial to operations. If female soldiers are allowed to attend and get that insight and first-hand knowledge of what the course entails and what life would be like in an operational Ranger unit, they would be in a much better position to support those Ranger units.

I doubt that any of the support types would benefit from Ranger School. Ranger School develops specific skills that a Ranger will need during a variety of missions. There's no value in teaching a truck driver to climb mountains, rappel, or execute detailed small unit actions. Neither will sleep deprivation or cold wet nights. Whether the mission is to deliver chow, put heavy rounds on target, or treat the wounded, the support side simply needs to do their part expertly. Sorta like falling in to secure a downed medevac crew. BTDT. Don't need to be a medic or a pilot, just good at doing what you do.

[plato]

Originally Posted by Richard

This whole idea probably makes perfect sense to a leg-@$$ CSA and leg-@$$ SMA sitting around the Starbucks......
Richard

I have never seen two legs close together benefit anyone.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by plato

I have never seen two legs close together benefit anyone.

Except when doing a PLF.

[69harley]

Originally Posted by plato

I doubt that any of the support types would benefit from Ranger School. Ranger School develops specific skills that a Ranger will need during a variety of missions. There's no value in teaching a truck driver to climb mountains, rappel, or execute detailed small unit actions. Neither will sleep deprivation or cold wet nights. Whether the mission is to deliver chow, put heavy rounds on target, or treat the wounded, the support side simply needs to do their part expertly. Sorta like falling in to secure a downed medevac crew. BTDT. Don't need to be a medic or a pilot, just good at doing what you do.

I disagree. Ranger school is a leadership school that uses small unit tactics as the medium. Everyone that graduates from Ranger School is a better leader. Period.

On a personnal note, I think it would be pretty cool to have a wife or girlfriend that had a tab (that she truly earned).

[DIYPatriot]

Originally Posted by 69harley

On a personnal note, I think it would be pretty cool to have a wife or girlfriend that had a tab (that she truly earned).

What do you mean by truly earned? And at what costs does cool transcend logical?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by 69harley

On a personnal note, I think it would be pretty cool to have a wife or girlfriend that had a tab.

Concur. I ran one broad's tab up to damn near a thousand bucks, once.

[NoRoadtrippin]

UNBELIEVABLE.

From the day I got my "Ranger School story" med drop, I have sought to go back. Maybe that's two months of my life I can find something else to do with now.

[Buffalobob]

Equality comes slowly and changes the status quo.