Senator John McCain

[paedco]

Senator John McCain has just come out against the SwiftBoat Vet AD about John Kerry's Vietnam Service. I cannot understand this since he was in the Hanoi Hilton at the time Kerry testified before the Fulbright Committee and wrote that the evidence from that committee was used by his captors as propaganda while he ws imprisoned. Why is McCain now attempting to silence these SwiftBoat Vets? I suggest all of you out there who served in Nam, get a copy of the May 14, 1973 issue of the US News and World Report and read the First-Person account written by John McCain and published less than one month after his release from the POW camp. After reading this article, please let me know if you find as many puzzling questions as I found. For example, if he was in solitary confinement and had no contact of any kind with any fellow prisoners,as he says, how did he know the exact number of prisoners and their names held at his POW Camp? If he used the code he describes to pass on names etc., and had a guard close by 24/7, how was he able to pass on names when his own name would have required 117 taps on the wall? If, as he says, nobody was allowed to witness his interrogations, and he had no contact with other prisoners, who can verify that he was ever tortured? Just read his own words and see if you too have serious questions.
paedco
Florida

[Roguish Lawyer]

I can't stand John McCain (my former Congressman and Senator whose office I worked in and whose campaigns I worked on long ago, BTW), but I think there are some possible answers to your questions. I wasn't there, so please excuse me if this speculation is offensive in any way. I only know what I have read.

Originally posted by paedco
For example, if he was in solitary confinement and had no contact of any kind with any fellow prisoners,as he says, how did he know the exact number of prisoners and their names held at his POW Camp?

He could have learned this after the war. He also may not have been in solitary the entire time.

Originally posted by paedco
If he used the code he describes to pass on names etc., and had a guard close by 24/7, how was he able to pass on names when his own name would have required 117 taps on the wall?

I haven't read this book, but the Vietnam POW books I have read (including Nick Rowe's) indicate that prisoners did have some contact with one another. Not sure about McCain's facility, but many POW camps had bamboo cages, not solid walls.

Originally posted by paedco
If, as he says, nobody was allowed to witness his interrogations, and he had no contact with other prisoners, who can verify that he was ever tortured?

From what I have read, prisoners sometimes had the opportunity to see other prisoners before and after interrogations. This would enable the inference to be drawn. Also, from what I have read, torture was widely practiced by the VC and NVA.

* * * *

I do not believe it is necessary to attack McCain's war record to have big problems with him as a politician.

[The Reaper]

RL:

Concur.

His actions as a sailor and his actions as an elected official are separate and should be examined as such.

TR

[paedco]

All I asked anybody to do was read the article published less than one month after McCain's release, not conjecture or thoughts. On Page 49 of the article, he says "As soon as I was able to walk in March 1968, Day was removed and I remained in solitary confinement from that time on for more than two years. I was not allowed to see or talk to or communicate with any of my fellow prisoners." Just get the article at any large library and read it, then comment. All the things I said before are not my words nor are they the words of anybody else. They are McCains words written immediately and published only one month after his release. You be the Judge!

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally posted by The Reaper
RL:

Concur.

His actions as a sailor and his actions as an elected official are separate and should be examined as such.

TR

Gotta agree with TR on this. We all know folks whose perspectives seem to change as they move along in age and position. Hell, how many of you have said about folks with whom you served that so and so was a great team sergeant, or team leader but seems to have forgotten from whence he came or is now more upgef....ed as a (pick the rank or job title).

As far as politicians go, IMHO, they are so low on the food chain that clamworms can't get to them. Most have agendas, many seem to forget for whom they serve, all like power, and non with which I have dealt are worthy enough to be compared to a boil on the butt of a 12 year old guerrilla in the LRA.

Jack Moroney

[NousDefionsDoc]

McCain never said it was a lie, he said it was bad form. And when he did, the story jumped ahead of everything else in the press.

Both sides seem to be paying heed to the idea that the public is tired of the bashing overtly. This may have been a way to draw attention to the claims without directly bashing Kerry. Can you imagine how many people watched the ads and visited the web site since McCain mentioned it?

[Eagle5US]

Peadco Sir: Who are you to question? And based on what? A single article (that doesn't sit right in your mind) in light of someone's political actions that you do not agree with??? Poor form Sir.

Belaying his political agenda...

There have been numerous books written (NOT by McCain) that refer in detail to his particular stint at Hua Lo. Additionally, I have had opportunity to read through some of the interrogation reports generated from Hua Lo and the "details" on methods of extraction methods are incorporated. Torture at Hua Lo was commonplace and encouraged.

Mr. McCain's POW claims, and his actions under those circumstances, should not come under question. His information about that time in his Naval carreer has been corraborated, lauded, and proven as true by multiple sources.

We have enough problems with REAL POW / SOF Posers, let's not try and make one out of someone who has suffered for this country at the hands of another.

Thank you for your lengthy service and time in SRV.

Eagle

[paedco]

Eagle, No sir, I did not quote from one article that espoused someone's ideas about John McCAIN. I went to the library four years ago and got the copy of the US News and World Report from microfische andmade a copy. This was a First-Person account written by John McCain himself and in it he makes numerous statements that I found questionable. He was runnig for the Presidential nomination at the time and I was leaning toward supporting him. He said huimself that nobody ever witnessed his interrogations and he only had someone else in his room with him for three months, then spent over two years in solitary with no contact, communication or sight with any fellow prisoners(His words). The code he says they used to communicate the 355 names was using one tap for A, two taps for B, etc. Make a chart using this method and see how long it would take to tap out your own name, realizing you would have to pause between letters. If nobody witnessed his interrogations then who could attest to his being tortured. He says he was constantly having to meet with visiting dignataries from all over the world and everybody knew he was the son of the Commanding Admiral of the Pacific Fleet. Since North Vietnam was attempting to win over the sympathy of the world and turn them against the US, do you really think they would have tortured their Prize POW, who had to be seen by the visitors? I do not question SEnator McCain's patriotism nor his service and have no idea what treatment he received. I only know his own words leave a lot of unanswered question for me. I'm just one of those people who do not accept anything on face value until I have verified it.