What is This?

[Aoresteen]

I found this crest in an Army/Navy store. I have never seen it before. It seems to be a 1/10th Group Bad Tölz crest of sorts. Anyone know what it is?

Thanks!

[x SF med]

Really interesting - the letters look Greek - a capital Beta, a lowercase Alpha and an uppercase Upsilon(?) the oddest thing is the cut shield - not a normal item in an American crest, I would guess also it is an MI item with the embossed rose in the handle of the knife... Just guessing.

[Airbornelawyer]

They don't teach Greek in language school anymore?

alpha, beta, gamma, all lower case

I could swear I've seen something similar somewhere before.

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer

They don't teach Greek in language school anymore?

alpha, beta, gamma, all lower case

I could swear I've seen something similar somewhere before.

AL-
It's been a long time since my pledge days in college... the only thing I really quit was the Greek system, I realized, it was just buying friends and buying a network - I was much happier when I met people with similar interests, or even dissimilar interests and had no financial/forced social stake in the friendship/acquaintanceship.

So my Greek is a little rusty, not like I use it every day...

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally Posted by x_sf_med

AL-
It's been a long time since my pledge days in college... the only thing I really quit was the Greek system, I realized, it was just buying friends and buying a network - I was much happier when I met people with similar interests, or even dissimilar interests and had no financial/forced social stake in the friendship/acquaintanceship.

So my Greek is a little rusty, not like I use it every day...

Just funnin' with you.

I learned the Greek alphabet as a kid because my father studied Greek in his college days at the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. No frat life there.

He also studied Hebrew. Reading those Greek and Hebrew textbooks when I was a kid was probably a big factor in my lifelong interest in foreign languages. Plus my mother was a missionary.

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I love mysteries!!!

Here is what I found
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/H...20ABN.htm#ODA7

Thanks for the find!

[CoLawman]

Originally Posted by Aoresteen

I found this crest in an Army/Navy store. I have never seen it before. It seems to be a 1/10th Group Bad Tölz crest of sorts. Anyone know what it is?

Thanks!

I love mysteries!!!

Here is what I found
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/H...20ABN.htm#ODA7

Reading further on this site, there was an email posted from the designer of the patch (Who some of you may know, shoot....he or some of the other team members might be members here!) explaining the history of the patch.

(Source: Email from Richard Hayse, SFODA-9 and 7, 1976-1978)
The pin you identify as SADM(?) was in fact the unofficial team patch for SFODA-7, the SADM team at Bad Toelz. I was the team medic and designed the patch and had them made in Augsburg at a tailor shop in 1977. The shape is that of a SADM, the black/red/gold stripes of the German flag found on the 1/10th beret flash, the lightening bolts from the SF SSI, the dagger is the SS dagger for the SS Junkerschule (officer's school) originally at Bad Toelz with the nuclear symbol in the hilt, and the Alpha-Beta-Gamma symbols are for the three types of radiation released from a nuclear explosion. I still have two of the original patches and was surprised to find that an enamel pin had been made from the design. SFODA-7 at that time was made up of CPT Flavin, 1LT Matherly, MSG Brakeman, SFC Johnson, SFC Geiger, SSG Hayse, SFC Camus, SFC Pruett, SSG Hering, SSG McCann, SSG Moore and SSG Detrick.
F. Richard Hayse

[vsvo]

Terrific find CoLawman, thanks for the link, great info!

Slight hijack: On the linked page, there is a related link to a PS member's webpage. That linky no worky, since that address has been updated.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I love mysteries!!!

Here is what I found
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/H...20ABN.htm#ODA7

Reading further on this site, there was an email posted from the designer of the patch (Who some of you may know, shoot....he or some of the other team members might be members here!) explaining the history of the patch.

(Source: Email from Richard Hayse, SFODA-9 and 7, 1976-1978)
The pin you identify as SADM(?) was in fact the unofficial team patch for SFODA-7, the SADM team at Bad Toelz. I was the team medic and designed the patch and had them made in Augsburg at a tailor shop in 1977. The shape is that of a SADM, the black/red/gold stripes of the German flag found on the 1/10th beret flash, the lightening bolts from the SF SSI, the dagger is the SS dagger for the SS Junkerschule (officer's school) originally at Bad Toelz with the nuclear symbol in the hilt, and the Alpha-Beta-Gamma symbols are for the three types of radiation released from a nuclear explosion. I still have two of the original patches and was surprised to find that an enamel pin had been made from the design. SFODA-7 at that time was made up of CPT Flavin, 1LT Matherly, MSG Brakeman, SFC Johnson, SFC Geiger, SSG Hayse, SFC Camus, SFC Pruett, SSG Hering, SSG McCann, SSG Moore and SSG Detrick.
F. Richard Hayse

Damn your google is strong! Great find!

[82ndtrooper]

Just imagine if the MYSPACEHERO or the PFC SF SNIPER had that crest on his 10th Group beret/flash in his now infamous pic ??

Google and some ingenuity do go a long way.............nice find COLAWMAN !!

[x SF med]

I didn't think we could talk about SADM, if it even really exists, which it may or may not.

[Team Sergeant]

x_sf_med,

There are currently 13,000 hits for SADM and Special Forces on a google search. Some are gov websites (a few below). The cats been out of the bag a few decades....

TS



http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/w54.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54



Review Essay
Special Operations Forces and Small Wars
RYAN J. McCOMBIE
The first priority of the US military is to preserve the American way of life. A corollary interest is to preserve our interests throughout the world. In small, brushfire, inter- and intra-regional wars, the forces correctly called upon to maintain our interests are often our Special Operations Forces. Many books have been written about these forces since Goldwater-Nichols brought them into the national limelight. Four recent ones address a range of topics: the role of Special Forces in American history, their training and employment, a case study of SOF operations, and a first-person account of SF operations from the earliest days of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos through the beginnings of high-altitude, low-opening (HALO) parachuting and Special Atomic Demolition Munition (SADM) delivery training and operations.

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/USAWC/P...5/aut-essa.htm


http://www.ransac.org/Documents/suit...al%20forces%22


Welcome to the Department of Energy OpenNet System
The Department of Energy (DOE) is committed to openness. In support of that commitment, we have developed OpenNet to provide easy, timely access to recently declassified documents, including information declassified in response to Freedom of Information Act requests.

http://www.osti.gov/opennet/forms.js.../factsfin.html

[Nuke]

Originally Posted by x_sf_med

I didn't think we could talk about SADM, if it even really exists, which it may or may not.

Next time your in Albuquerque, NM go to the National Atomic Museum. http://www.atomicmuseum.com/

The last time I was there you could pick one up and strap it on if you wanted. Well, technically one of its carrying containers but you get the idea.

The museum is very interesting to go to if you have the chance. They have a ton of full size models of nukes and they aren't behind glass.

End of Advertisement

Oh yeah, for the terrorists out there, don't bother they're all empty. I asked.

[Aoresteen]

Originally Posted by CoLawman

I love mysteries!!!

Here is what I found
http://www.usarmygermany.com/Units/H...20ABN.htm#ODA7

.....SFODA-7 at that time was made up of CPT Flavin, 1LT Matherly, MSG Brakeman, SFC Johnson, SFC Geiger, SSG Hayse, SFC Camus, SFC Pruett, SSG Hering, SSG McCann, SSG Moore and SSG Detrick.
F. Richard Hayse

Many Thanks CoLawman! It's funny that I don't recall the crest as I was at Tölz from Feb 1981 to June 1984. I do remember SFC Pruett and SSG Moore. Mike Sherman was the SADM team leader at the time. Lots of stories about Sherman (wild man, never ever let him drive ANYTHING!) abound. ODA 7 was an interesting team to say the least.

As I recall SSG Moore was a former pro boxer and his kids set his quarters on fire (June 1984)! Maybe Lksteve can confirm it's the same SSG Moore that I'm thinking about.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Aoresteen

Mike Sherman was the SADM team leader at the time. Lots of stories about Sherman (wild man, never ever let him drive ANYTHING!) abound. ODA 7 was an interesting team to say the least.

you never spent any time in A-7s team room, did you...? they had that crest on their equipment lockers and on the detachment SOPs...and Mike Sherman was a card...served with him again in the 8th PSYOP Bn...

i don't remember Moore as a boxer, but he was one of the guys that came after i had served my indenture as NSO...

[Aoresteen]

Originally Posted by lksteve

you never spent any time in A-7s team room, did you...? they had that crest on their equipment lockers and on the detachment SOPs...and Mike Sherman was a card...served with him again in the 8th PSYOP Bn...

...

Naw, I never did get into 7's teamroom. Everytime I went by their team room Mike was locking up the HS locks on the gate that covered the door. When I would ask Mike what he had in there, he would say "Best Kimchi"!

So what ever happened to Mike & Lani and their kids (mean, meaner, and meanest)?