How has being SF or in the Army changed you?

[Tubbs]

Solid copy sir, I'm hazing myself as we type

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by dennisw

I've watched my youngest go through the SF pipeline for the last two years, including basic and infantry training, and the transformation is very interesting to say the least. Since he's fairly young, some of the changes can be chalked up to normal maturity, if there is such a thing. However, I have a feeling that most of the changes are related to his training and experience.

For the Quite Professionals and candidates, do you think the SF journey has changed you in any significant manner?

Absolutely. Looking back it's easy to see. As you go through the training process you don't notice it. Every event builds on the previous and makes you better. More experienced. Smarter. One of the popular buzz words is "Stress Innoculation."

Take weight lifting. You couldn't go into the gym the first time and lift 300 pounds...but if you set that as a goal, and go back week after week...you get stronger. You don' notice the improvement from day to day, but if you record your progress and them look backwords...it's easy to see.

How do you get good judgement?

Wisdom

How do you get wisdom?

Experience

How do you get Experience?

Bad Judgement

SF Candidates go through extensive training scenarios so that they can learn from mistakes by practicing so that when they have to do it for real, they already have the experience and judgement to execute correctly and quickly.

These are all good things that the Trainers and the Trainees want to happen.

What you're noticing is that your boy is becoming a man.

[abc_123]

Great observation, WM, about "experience". All of us get that on a daily basis. No matter what your "experience" level, bad judgements are made just the same; and each bad judgement provides a learning experience.

Speaking for self, one of the things that I can say is that the SF experience made me more confident. Or, maybe gave me the OPPORTUNITY to prove to myself those qualities/character traits that I posessed. ...those qualities that were/are still taught to me by my parents.

dennisw, I can't speak for sure what your son was "taught" because that is a function of the person receiving the instruction, however from a 'maturity' and 'experience' standpoint, one thing that SF training will give you is a large amount of both in a compressed timeframe. Of that, i assure you. That your son is walking the path that he is is a testiment to your mentorship/parenting.

Again, from my personal experience.... I had faced adversity/diappointment in my pre-Army life....however, the key event that I can remember (nothing spectacular, but important to me at the time ...) happened during my re-test for the STAR land-navigation exam as part of the SF Qual Course (SFQC). I got misoriented (otherwise knon as 'lost') and lost a very large amount of time. I finally got myself reoriented and proceeded to conclude that I had no chance of completing the course in the alloted time limit and had an internal debate on wether or not I should quit right there. I stopped, drank some water, and decided that, although there was no hope, I shoud continue and try to do my best and at least fail with dignity. (This was probably the lowest point in my life as it was at this time that I saw all my dreams slipping away.... ) Additionally, I saw history repeating itself in that I had, as a cherry Lieutenant prior to 'the Q', ended up being medically dropped from Ranger School....HOWEVER, I knew I could never face my parents (who taught me to never quit and to FINISH any fight that I got myself into) or live with myself if I quit.) So, I started to run, and I ran through the water across Scuba Road, back North along th Bowling Alleys ...knowing that I was going to fail. I got to my second to last point and then the instructor at the point told me (I don't know why... ), that I "Neeed to hurry". So I ran. Maybe not fast, but as fast as I physically could with a ruck on my back and a M16 in my hands, and with all the desperation of a young man chasing his dreams. I got to my attack point, and shot my azimuth to where I thought my last point was and proceeded onward...and eventually came upon my final point wiht an instructor and a bunch of sleeping students sitting around trying to care for their worn-out feet.

SUCCESS! I had made it!... Probably the greatest achievement of my life.

And the NCO instructor said. "What took you so F_ing long?, you only had 30min left. You're the last one. Grab a seat and get some water." Looking back on that, I couldn't have wished for him to say anything more. Internally, I knew I had triumphed, but in the grand scheme of things, I was just another student who had barely made the cutoff.

I didn't LEARN anything that day, however, I AFFIRMED a lot. I had LEARNED a lot from my parents and my experiences as an adolescent, however I hd just AFFIRMED them as a MAN.

To this day, you're going to have to kill me before I'd quit something that I've commited myself to. (BTW, I did end up going back an graduating from the Ranger Course following my graduation from SF Language School). I'm not saying that I'm the best/smartest/fastest/strongest, however I'm not going to embarass my name or the beret that I wear for lack of effort. In anything.

I'm just one of many.... Hope your son joins the ranks.

Good Luck to him!

[Petelink]

I think the Q course is as much about testing a candidate's determination to be SF as it is about assessing for certain traits. I had a similar STAR experience to abc-123's, it would have been so damn easy to quit, of course I didn't and that set the tone for the rest of the course for me. However, I think the reason I didn't quit had less to do with any unique, God-given talent and much more to do with my profound desire to be SF. I firmly believe that the likelihood of someone finishing this course is directly proportional to their desire to one day join a team, and to be honest that is really just an abstract goal, very few of us in the course really have a realistic idea of what we're trying to become. What drives us is a loose mix of fact and fiction derived as much from the popular media as from real sources like SF guys. Throughout the pipeline you learn more and more about where you're going, but in the end it's still left up to that fire in your heart that burns every time you think about accomplishing your goal. So to answer Dennis's question, I don't think the Q course has changed me, but it has shone a spot light on certain traits like determination and teamwork that will serve me in every facet of my life and it has reminded me that anything is possible if you really want it.

*Edited to replace stubborness with determination, as it was pointed out that being stubborn means being inflexible and that is not something encouraged within the Q course.

[SFRADIOMAN]

I think one of the biggest changes I experienced was that there is usually a shorter solution for a long question. Many of life experiences taught us to fully examine the situation, analyze the details and ponder over the various solutions and get a consensus for the path to be taken. SF provided the exposure to hundreds of men who had been there and done that many times and they were proud to impart those experiences on to you whether it be in the classroom or in the field. From commo training to FTXs to specialized training to combat in VN there were men who could teach you to 'see it quicker and act faster'.

In the field, this could be: keep quiet and get the hell out, shoot as many as you can and get the hell out, call in arty and air cover and get the hell out but bottom line was 'get the hell out' and live to fight another day. I also learned that the better I knew my job the easier it was to perform it and to train others in what I knew. Both of these things have influenced my civilian life.

But there is a big caveat: there is a transition from using brute force to solve problems to using verbal techniques to accomplish the objective. For me, this has been a difficult task.

The main thing that I came away with was, with SF, on an A team there was never any doubt that each would do his utmost (usually superbly) to accomplish a mission but in civilian life, many of the players will let you down and not care.

[Scottkimbal]

How has being in SF or being in the Army changed you? What were you like before joining? People tell me the process of joining and participating in the organizations change you but no one is in a position to explain beyond that. I tell them life changes you but it does raise an interesting question. Your prespectives on this will be greatly appreciated.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Scottkimbal

How has being in SF or being in the Army changed you? What were you like before joining? People tell me the process of joining and participating in the organizations change you but no one is in a position to explain beyond that. I tell them life changes you but it does raise an interesting question. Your prespectives on this will be greatly appreciated.

I think you have to understand that SF is a commitment and during the process of assessment and selection we are going to look long and hard at you to determine if you have what it takes to make the commitment we require. In order to have a commitment to anything your own physical and psychological make up has to fall in line with those characteristics that are needed for you to function as a Special Forces Soldier. If you have baggage that you carry that prohibit you from exhibiting those characteristics then you are not going to be able to enter our profession. So what I am basically telling you is that you either have the basic characteristics that we need or you do not and we are not in the business of changing you but training you, developing skill sets that you already have the ability to grasp, perhaps helping you mature and develop those basic building blocks you already posses so that you can perform our missions and work on our teams. The life altering aspects evolving from your time in our profession will happen because of your ability to fullfilling your potential and achieving goals you may never have thought possible while you work with the best any Army has to offer in terms of professional soldiers. That is about as simple as I can make it.

[Richard]

Being in the US Army gave me insight into the type of gigantic bureaucratic organization I neither enjoyed nor ever sought to be a part of.

Being in SF gave me insight into my having the ability to focus wholly on the mission, while placing all of the garbage that is not necessary to performing that mission in a shoebox on the back shelf in the closet of my mind until the mission is completed.

I am using that ability now as I deal with my Mom's passing away yesterday in her home. At some point, when there are no more tasks to be done, I will pull down the shoebox and sort its contents in my own way. People who have never been around an SFODA have difficulty understanding that concept.

Richard

[sg1987]

Richard,
My condolences on the loss of your Mom.

[dennisw]

Scottkimbal,

A similar question to yours was asked previously. The answers are very good. You may want to review this previous thread.

Dennis

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...?t=6951&page=2

[Scottkimbal]

Dennisw: My search wasn't thorough enough it seems. Thank you for bring the thread to my attention.

SG1987: My condolences on the loss of your mother.

[Rob_0811]

Being in the Army has made me realize that I should have gone into SF.

In the Army, if it's stupid, and wastes time, it's policy. That doesn't appear to be the case with SF. Must be nice.

[Snaquebite]

Originally Posted by Rob_0811

Being in the Army has made me realize that I should have gone into SF.

In the Army, if it's stupid, and wastes time, it's policy. That doesn't appear to be the case with SF. Must be nice.

Many things deemed a waste of time by some people are only a "waste" if they allow them to be and do not look to the things they can learn or the opportunities that can arise.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Rob_0811

In the Army, if it's stupid, and wastes time, it's policy.

Interesting, sounds like you have been in units with leadership problems. In SF, SF NCOs don't let anyone waste time, don't let anyone do stupid things unless they fit the typical know-it-all model and are not redeemable in which case they expedite their self destructive path to preserve the force, and have significant input in policy. And, SF is Army!

[mark46th]

Being SF taught me ultimate responsibility. If I didn't do my job to the best of my ability, one or more of my team may be hurt. I looked upon that as positive, an honor to be trusted by other SF soldiers with their lives. I also learned that I will never be a victim. If I go down, it will be swinging...