SOT-Mott Lake...Who attended the course?

**The Reaper** · 09-06-2018, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSM-H

Hey to all, went through in July/Aug 80, and then was assigned to the 7th Grp team ODA725. MSG Harry, Dillon, Mike Brown, John Humphries, Wayne Mallick, Ken Potter, Van Arsdale, Wayne Sigourney, Me (Earnie Holifield) and a couple of others.... It was an eye opening experience for my first SF assignment..... Left Jan '82. Never forget it and still shoot pretty well.... Lol CSM-H

PS: almost forgot, Michael Bellanger (sp) is on SF Brothers and 5th Grp site on Face Boke.... he is about to release those very t-shirts again!!! get in your order....

Earnie:

Unless I missed something, SOT(D) above is Michael Bellanger.

TR

exsquid · 09-06-2018, 20:48

While we are discussing SOT and so much of our CQB stuff is an outgrowth of it, I have a small request. As I posted a while back in the 18C section, I am working on a research paper regarding the history of tactical breaching. Would any of you gentlemen care to share what was being taught at SOT during different time frames? Specifically I am looking at whether or not they were training ballistic breaching and if so what type of rounds were being utilized. Were they teaching manual breaching and if so what tools. Finally, what charges were being taught for explosive breaching. Although this is now almost ancient history I understand if guys would prefer to discuss this via PM. Thanks.

x/S

glebo · 09-07-2018, 06:17

Wow, I don't know how I missed this. Yes many great memories of Mott lake. When A/3/5 took it over from 2/5 in I think late '85 or early '86 we then took over training. I was one of the .45 marksmanship instructors attached to 571, Sherman Jordan, Mike Pevler and Bill Gregorie's tm. My tm, 572 had the sniper committee. I still have my ceramic Nous Defions coffee cup after all these yrs...I think my T-shirts are probably dust now. I left to go to SWC when the transition of the new poi was happening. There was a SGM (or more) that came from "behind the fence" to do the transition.

Astronomy · 09-08-2018, 19:57

Went through fall of '78. Class 1-79. We were told it was the second SOT class executed.

'Bout 20 of us (all tabbed E4/E5) from 2/75 along with two ODAs from Bragg. Besides myself, other very young 2nd Batt Rangers in our little group included Ed Kaffel, C.W. Thompson, & Randy Shugart. We hootched up in GP Mediums on concrete pads. Folding cots and sleeping bags. No barracks buildings. Uniform of the day was mostly cut-off green shorts, t-shirts, jungle boots, and patrol caps. Mess hall was functioning and served pretty good chow three times per day.

At that time, all the cadre were still the Blue Light guys, recently stood down from their prior mission. Senior E7 & above. Combat vets all.

With typical Ranger Batt compartmentalized efficiency, we carefully selected "volunteers" weren't told exactly what the course was about. Only that it was SF run, was called "SOT", and it involved "high stress". That's it. Nobody knew what the hell it was about (down at our level). Our packing list included all our field gear, our unit assigned small arms, additional personal handguns authorized, and Class A uniform for travel. Ruck and about two duffle bags worth of crap for everyone. Plus footlockers full of guns. The emphasis on bringing guns was a clue, but literally no mention of a dedicated shooting course was hinted at.

We got picked up by an SF driven, uncovered 2.5 ton & trailer at Fayetteville airport on a Sunday morning. Then drove straight through main post Ft Bragg (1st time visit for all of us), and then out to the middle of nowhere (Mott Lake). Cunning Rangers that we were, we deduced that we were being injected into a SERE course. We concocted a plan...

Decided that as soon as we arrived at wherethefuckever, on signal, we'd throw heavy duffle bags over the sides at our would-be captors, then flee into the pines with our guns... evading in our Class A uniforms and gleaming parade jump boots. Establish a rally point and evade back to Bragg. To do what, I have no idea.

Sure enough, we turned into the long drive to the compound and then spied fences, concertina, a gate guard with an Uzi and a leashed GS Dog. Looked pretty close to the POW camps from Ranger School, so we are busy grabbing our shit and preparing to bail...

The gate guard leisurely opens the gate and waves us in (nobody else around), then two casually off-duty dressed SF guys stroll out to meet us in front of the HQ. ID themselves as the Commander and his Duty NCO. Gives us a real friendly welcome and offers us all ice cold breakfast beers from a 55 gallon drum full of it. (It must be a feint!). Tells us that we weren't expected until the next day, but, no sweaty-dah, it would give us more time to settle in before the afternoon BBQ...

We warily decide to hear what this place is about and dismount from the deuce.

He tells us that we have arrived at a live fire shooting and advanced SF TTP course that we are going to love, love, love...

He was right. A month or so later, back at Ft Lewis, 18 out of 20 of us submitted 4187s for reassignment to Special Forces. Battalion Commander LTC Downing was not happy. Not a one was approved. But almost all of us wound up crossing over within the next year or two (as our initial Ranger enlistments ran out). We had all caught the SF virus after seeing that the grass really was greener on the other side.

Breaching? Back then, I'd have to say that the main tool we used to lead an assault was a live cooked-off frag. Or two together and rolled in simultaneously. LOL. At least in the tire house.

Otherwise, handling a breach point was pretty basic by today's standards: Halligan tools, pry bars, folding stock Remington 870 shotgun breaching with 00 Buck, #9 bird shot, or cut shells. And a limited selection of standard 18C type door charges. Focus was less on breaching and more on shooting during discriminatory rescue scenarios. We were exposed to mechanical, explosive, and ballistic breaching, but not as a full time thing for most live fire iterations. Distraction devices were smokes (with simulated CS) or standard "M-80" style hand grenade simulators. A lot of focus on entering through ground level windows or rappelling into upper story windows of high structures. Like the stuff 22 SAS executed a few years later in London. It was advanced stuff for the times, but CQB art was still in its infancy in most places.

The SF Officer on that hot & casual Sunday morning was right. His very, very experienced guys ran a superb course and the things we got exposed to outside of the CT/CQB thing were also invaluable. A hell of a lot of still recent MACV-SOG operational knowledge imparted. As well as excellent shooting instruction. And all the stuff that Blue Light had learned/developed during their existence.

Like Disneyland for SOF guys. Because it wasn't yet a SWC controlled pass/fail schoolhouse environment. Big Boy Rules. The only way you could not progress was to be unsafe. Otherwise, it was a completely relaxed (yet professional) learning environment. The kind of training we all wish our ODAs could conduct year round.

It was still that way the next time I went to Mott Lake and 5th Group ODAs were running it on a rotational basis. Summer of '83. The cadre were naturally a bit less senior, but they had a fundamentally squared away POI, improved facilities, and enthusiasm to teach.

I still see a need for an SOT course as a place where multiple ODAs can go TDY, be completely away from the distractions of the unit flagpole, and enjoy concentrated focus on unique combat skills that all teams need, and without having to logistically support the majority of their own training. I'm not necessarily talking about those skills already taught at existing SFAUC or SFARTAETC. More of a hands-on combat lessons learned course with a lot of built in live-fire and external support assets.

I think we lost something of incredible value when that training venue went away. More valuable than the money spent trying to qualify the entire force in Military Free-Fall. SOT skills were something that every single ODA from every single Group would eventually employ for real... somewhere. Unlike MFF.

I literally still have my black t-shirt (purchased out at Mott Lake) with the small nous defions front logo. After hundreds of washings and my attainment of Silver Back middle-aged spread, it was retired ages ago. I still keep it carefully folded away as a reminder of great times.

exsquid · 09-08-2018, 20:43

Astronomy:

Great post!

x/S

**PRB** · 09-08-2018, 22:06

Astronomy...good recollection and that was the ambiance of the place...just great training and no BS.

Glebo… I know all of those guys...went to Sherms funeral in his home town with my ODA as we often piggy backed when one of us had a AC for a Halo op. That was a tough gig....

glebo · 09-09-2018, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRB

Astronomy...good recollection and that was the ambiance of the place...just great training and no BS.

Glebo… I know all of those guys...went to Sherms funeral in his home town with my ODA as we often piggy backed when one of us had a AC for a Halo op. That was a tough gig....

I hear ya. I hear the funeral was quite a hoot though. As Sherm would've wanted it. I work up in the "White Elephant" with Mike Pevler, we often recollect on mott lake tales. Bill Gregory was there for a while, but then he's out at ROBIN SAGE now...

Many more tales I could tell...great memories though..

mojaveman · 09-17-2018, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by glebo

Yes, many great memories of Mott lake. When A/3/5 took it over from 2/5 in I think late '85 or early '86, we then took over training.

Remember that well. Didn't get to attend but was out there a lot providing communications support. Everybody was wearing those shirts and they were cool. Remember the porn movies at lunch?

SOT(D) · 09-17-2018, 19:41

"LOVE MA WORK!" a great guy. Photo from the pistol range, but not of Paul. Shot during a visit by some pogue senator from W.D.C. Dog and pony show day, with Sleepy Norton and all!

ODA 226 · 09-18-2018, 02:52

"Poole's Rules"

1. Never dry fire in a gunfight.
2. Never initiate an ambush from a cross-fire.
3. Never chase Indians who've stolen a Gatling Gun!

LOL!

JimP · 09-18-2018, 06:04

I forgot #2. #3 I use to this day. I use it on all the young Captain's as a way of saying: "Slow down there cowboy....let's think through this a moment."

and - "Let's walk downrange and laugh at the targets."