02-26-2012, 10:35
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#1
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Quiet Professional
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What could go wrong with this plan?
An E3 with Basic and AIT behind him and no language skills should be able to teach his HN counterpart equally as well as an E7 with 10 years of experience, SF and Ranger School, and cultural/language training.
Why not just use infantry squads for VSO without the SF guys?
Same-same, right?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:01
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#2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Same-same, right? TR
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It will be by the time they finish "tweaking" JRTC and publishing the .ppt slides. Just ask them.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:06
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#3
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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the Army also plans to issue field manual to the force on how to work with foreign militaries.
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I read that and all I could think "I'm pretty sure there already is one of those out"
When I first heard about the Regionally Aligned Brigades, I was a little disgusted. It seems everyone is trying to get into the FID realm with out any of the proper training. The SEALs are evening doing it, with nobody qualified in the language.
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“There’s only SF, there’s no SF equivalents. That’s idiocy. SEALs are not SF. MARSOC are not SF and SF are not SEALs. ... Those people who are throwing that [term] around certainly don’t understand what they’re talking about.”
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Amato is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:12
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#4
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Nothing wrong with being area oriented, with vehicles and troops camo'd for the area, a bare minimum of language training, maybe even some cultural training. Tie it into weather, terrain, and it would speed up the prep for deployment into that area.
Just so long as they realize they are not Special Forces, and don't try to be Special Forces.
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CSB is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:29
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#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB
Just so long as they realize they are not Special Forces, and don't try to be Special Forces.
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Yeah, except they won't. I work in Theater Security Cooperation with Mexico. Whenever the RAB concept is discussed, it is always characterized as "you know, that stuff SF used to do."
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sinjefe is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:48
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#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
"you know, that stuff SF used to do."
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Wow...saying something like that is asking to get karate chopped in the throat!
I think with this, you might hear more conventional commanders saying "We can do the same thing SF can, but with out the special pays"
__________________
“There’s only SF, there’s no SF equivalents. That’s idiocy. SEALs are not SF. MARSOC are not SF and SF are not SEALs. ... Those people who are throwing that [term] around certainly don’t understand what they’re talking about.”
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Amato is offline
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02-26-2012, 12:11
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#7
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We shouldn't kid ourselves any longer...
There are battle space owners that already overtly wonder exactly what it is that SF can do that they can't do by themselves. Hell, we have as many terps as 'they' do...
...and they can do it without all of the uniform violations and opfund problems.
Our collective attitude as a force coupled with our collective ego has put us in a very uncomfortable predicament.
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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02-26-2012, 12:22
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#8
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy L-bach
...Our collective attitude as a force coupled with our collective ego has put us in a very uncomfortable predicament.
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Well said.
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-26-2012, 13:33
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#9
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I think that in itself is its own endless thread about our "unwanteds".
So if the whole Army can get this up and going, where does that leave us as a Regiment?
__________________
“There’s only SF, there’s no SF equivalents. That’s idiocy. SEALs are not SF. MARSOC are not SF and SF are not SEALs. ... Those people who are throwing that [term] around certainly don’t understand what they’re talking about.”
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Amato is offline
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02-26-2012, 12:10
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#10
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjefe
Yeah, except they won't. I work in Theater Security Cooperation with Mexico. Whenever the RAB concept is discussed, it is always characterized as "you know, that stuff SF used to do."
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This is probably very true indeed,like the magazine Wired recently stated that SEALS are IN, and Special Forces are OUT.......... 
Big Teddy 
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
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SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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02-26-2012, 11:40
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#11
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB
Nothing wrong with being area oriented, with vehicles and troops camo'd for the area, a bare minimum of language training, maybe even some cultural training. Tie it into weather, terrain, and it would speed up the prep for deployment into that area.
Just so long as they realize they are not Special Forces, and don't try to be Special Forces.
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That is not the proposal on the table.
What you are referring to has long applied to apportionedand theater based forces.
Looks to me like the Big Army trying to steal a page from our playbook to remain relevant and to compete for forces.
One of the biggest issues from the VSO program with conventional attachments has been the assumption by the VSO force that they were now "SF."
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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