Presidential Election, April 2008

[CRad]

Originally Posted by 3SoldierDad

I'm not saying I'm right about everything - I'm telling you what makes me ill about these people.


Three Soldier Dad...Chuck

And that is only fair. There are things that make me "ill" (a very Southern espression) about all three. However, racism or race-enabling isn't among my list of grips.

I've sat my fat fanny in church for more than 50 years and goodness knows there were things said that I disagreed with - at the minute I heard them - but more often than not I took something of value away from what was being said even if I disagreed with the sermon.

The truth is that I can recall with any detail 3 sermons out of however many 50 times 52 equals. I remember those three because they impacted on me directly and helped me with my daily life.

Additionally, I've listened to "honored" guest speakers at more military dinners than I can count. Of all those I can remeber something from (once again) 3. It's not that anyone was a bad speaker...for crying out loud, Remo Butler singled out my husband in his speech but damned if I can recall why or what he said. Roger Donlon, Christmas '06 gave one hell of a warriors yell upon receiving his Yarborough Knife. Christmas '99 Ole Mize said
GWB was the one to vote for. I remember it because it irked me seeing as how I was a McCain supporter.

I think folks are getting caught up in relationships. Susan Eisenhower said it best by saying "guilt by association" is wrong. I'll be the first to admit that I adhere to the adage that you are known by your friends. I sent letters to everyone I knew because of President Bush's associates. The main one being Dick Cheney.

So you have a very good point and one that is hard for me to get around no matter how I rationalize Obama's relationship with Pastor Wright.

But I have to tell you that it looks like you are trying to rationalize not voting for a black man. There's nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of good people who feel exactly thatsame way. It doesn't mean they are bad people. It only means they have life experiences that cause them to be wary.

[Penn]

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. It is the verbalization of his beliefs.

[nmap]

I chose McCain; although with no enthusiasm.

I do not trust either Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama. They each make lavish promises, but say little about how such largess will be paid for.

In a way, I must regard the campaign as tragic. We face quite a number of challenges - a national debt above $9,000,000,000,000 and growing, the flow of funds from Medicare (about to go negative) and Social Security (going negative in a few years), energy costs and availability, and a resurgent China among them. There is no national debate of the issues or the solutions.

Some sources report that a third of students won't graduate from High School; others argue that the numbers are actually less. But whatever the numbers, they hint at problems when our students attempt to compete in the global economy. And what solutions do we see? Other than throwing money at the problem, of course. Nothing, so far as I can tell.

I doubt that any of the three will withdraw from Iraq, campaign rhetoric notwithstanding. The consequences of withdrawing would hit Americans in the gas tank rather quickly. I question whether Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama would treat the troops well, and I suspect their policies would make the task of our soldiers more difficult. If I'm in error, I will look forward to correction.

We needed someone who could lead, and who would lead well; none of the three strike me as that person. I suspect that whoever is elected will be quite unpopular by 2011. We'll have an even greater need for a statesman. I hope he (or she) appears by the next cycle.

[CRad]

Originally Posted by Penn

And who, if in a position of influence will grant amnesty to 20 Million plus illegal’s , and will eviscerate our armed forces, tax and section 8 the middle class or what left of it to death. There is no f’in way I will stand by and let that shit happen…AGAIN!!!

That is such silly thing to say since Ronald Reagan was the last President to grant amnesty to what you call illegals. Are you seriously talking hard on Ronald Reagan of all people?

Look at it this way...Social Security is in crisis mode, right? Wouldn't a few million or so contributors help that situation? The Latino population is young. They will be putting dollars into the deficit for years and years.

Maybe I am only seeing the good ones but these folks seem to have an awfully strong work ethic. Who else would work for less than minimum wage and show up day after day after day?

I have issues with immigration reform since everything offered so far seems to reward bad behavior but what if I look at it as aggressiveness rather than illegal actions? Don't we want the the most aggressive? Lazy boys won't bother. The ones who are here have ambition. It's a trait I admire.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by CRad

The bottom line is this...it doesn't matter what he says because the fact of the matter is the fucking guy is a g'dam Democrat. He could be purple and his Pastor could have the flag tattooed over his heart but the fact remains he's a DEMOCRAT and that makes him non-vote worthy in the eyes of some people.

Wouldn't you agree with that?

No, I wouldn't, and I do not appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth, and less than polite ones at that.

You find a conservative, pro-military, pro-life, pro-gun, low-tax, free market, anti-big government, anti-socialist, anti-illegal immigration, non-union owned Democrat (if you can) running against a Republican In Name Only like McCain and I will vote for them. My Mom and Dad were lifetime Dems, till the party left them in the 70s. If you are led by Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, Klansman Bob Byrd, and their ilk, you have a serious problem. Trouble is, Dems have painted themselves into a pretty narrow constituency, with many votes being drawn from the government dole, and few believe in what I believe in.

When I can find a Libertartian running against a Republican, I usually vote Lib, despite liking schools and highways.

If the Repub candidate had attended a church where David Duke had spoken ONCE, he would have been run out of the race and into retirement right now. Obama sat there and listened to black liberation theology for twenty years, and never noticed the "I hate whitey", "I hate this country", and "the white man invented AIDS and drugs to kill the black population" talk? I think it would be time to walk out the first time that was said. It would seem that Barrack Obama needed the connections and placement of a large metropolitan black church more than he minded the message. IMHO, Obama is a user, a farce, a racist, an extreme liberal, possibly guilty of crimes with Rezko, and has a lot less leadership and history behind him than President Bush did when he took office.

Hope that answers your question.

TR

[CRad]

Originally Posted by nmap

I question whether Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama would treat the troops well, and I suspect their policies would make the task of our soldiers more difficult. If I'm in error, I will look forward to correction.
.

nmap - this is a quote from a news source. Take it for what it's worth...

McCain boasts on his website that he “fought to extend the availability of G.I. bill education benefits for Vietnam veterans.” Yet he has been notably silent on extending those same benefits to today’s veterans. Perhaps, like the Pentagon, he is resisting the bill “out of fear that too many will use it.”

McCain has repeatedly voted to funnel billions of dollars to fund the war in Iraq, whose costs along with the war in Afghanistan, according to some experts, have already totaled more than $3 trillion. By contrast, the cost of the new G.I. bill is projected to be about $2.5 billion a year — roughly the cost of U.S. operations in Iraq for one week.


http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/20/...nores-gi-bill/

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by CRad

McCain has repeatedly voted to funnel billions of dollars to fund the war in Iraq, whose costs along with the war in Afghanistan, according to some experts, have already totaled more than $3 trillion.

I would call that a highly dubious figure that needs some real validation.

TR

[Penn]

I have hired a fair number of questionable documented employees. It’s not the just the Mexican immigrants that I am referring to. In NYC, as an example of accommodation and around the corner from my restaurant a 5X a day daily prayer meeting occurs on the side walk. I refuse to walk cross the street and be politically correct. These guys are hostile, spiteful, as sure as I’m writing this, would love the free ride to undermine our culture from within.

[CRad]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

No, I wouldn't, and I do not appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth, and less than polite ones at that.


Obama is ... an extreme liberal, possibly guilty of crimes with Rezko, and has a lot less leadership and history behind him than President Bush did when he took office.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I asked whether you agreed that some folks won't vote for Obama on the basis of his race. I certainly know a few and while I think they are wrong for their opinions I am going to continue being friends with them. I just figured you knew a few of the same folks I know.

Is Obama an extreme liberal? Dead on but some folks like his choices. Less Leadership and history than Bush? Duh. President Bush had been a Governor of a large state and did a credible job of it. Did I say some where that Obama was more qualified than President Bush because if I did I was wrong in doing so.

[GratefulCitizen]

Unhappily, my vote will be for McCain.

It is the political equivalent of applying pressure to a bleeding wound.

It won't fix anything, but hopefully it will buy some time.

[Penn]

Crad, I notice a distinct change in your writing style. I have to ask, you represented yourself as long term older church attendee in one post, humble almost, in the following aggressively of the now. Do the math for me will you.

[CRad]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I would call that a highly dubious figure that needs some real validation.

TR

For crying out loud, T! I said it was a news source and take it for what it's worth. Not to mention the source is ThinkProgress. The fact remains that McCain is not the best friend a soldier ever had and no news source is ever going to validate that fact as well as the soldiers themselves. I can link a thread on why McCain ain't the best choice for the next CINC.

[CRad]

Originally Posted by Penn

Crad, I notice a distinct change in your writing style. I have to ask, you represented yourself as long term older church attendee in one post, humble almost, in the following aggressively of the now. Do the math for me will you.

Penn - I am truly sorry. I am a 53 year old church goer. However, I am also the wife of an active duty SF Warrant and have been for more than 22 years.

I was never as good at being holy as my mom wanted me to be but I married really well. Sometimes the life I lead gets the best of me.

I may sound like a harpy and perhaps like I have a grudge agaisnt TR. The truth is I have great respect for him, his knowledge and ustmost respect for his contribution to the SF community. That doesn't mean I have to think he's always right.

In truth, most fellow soldiers tell my husband how sorry they are upon learning he has a liberal for a wife.

Does that explain things a little. Reaper is more able to hold his own with me which is why I challenge him on a few things. He's one of the good guys in my book.

Cheri

[Penn]

Crad, thank you. I must admit I was taken aback at how quickly you locked and loaded. You are very gracious in answering my request, which I think now; I was lucky to receive. Thank you.

[3SoldierDad]

Originally Posted by CRad

But I have to tell you that it looks like you are trying to rationalize not voting for a black man. There's nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of good people who feel exactly thatsame way. It doesn't mean they are bad people. It only means they have life experiences that cause them to be wary.

Wow....Hmmmm....One thing I've learned is that "the heart of man is deceitful beyond all else - Who can know it?"

I don't think I am trying to rationalize not voting for Obama because he is black, but you might be right. Frankly, I have never thought of him as black until it became an issue. Let me tell you why I don't think you are right. One of my favorite writers is Thomas Sowell. My favorite speaker is Alan Keyes. In my opinion, the best Secretary of State since George Shultz was Colin Powell...All my favorite athletes are black....I could go on and on. But that's not it...

The person I most admire on the planet will one day be a black man. The hero among heroes in my life is my 12 year-old adopted son Salifu Sesay Thomas. One of Charles Taylor's thugs tried to snuff his life out with many machete blows to the head - But failed! It's a long story, but let me say he's the most precious human being I know.

You say...

But I have to tell you that it looks like you are trying to rationalize not voting for a black man. There's nothing wrong with that.

If there's nothing wrong with that, then why do you write in such a way that one perceives an objection? If I'm rationalizing my not voting for Obama because he's black then that is objectionable - I object to you saying it is not. I think for a person not to vote for a person because of his or her skin color is wrong - rationalizing it is even worse. Rationalizing as I understand it is like code for lying to oneself - like logically making a false proof.

According to those groups that count the Senators votes, Obama has the most thoroughly liberal voting record in the Senate. Let me be clear, I'm to the right of Attila-The-Hun - That's probably why I wouldn't vote for him even if he were crimsom & blue (I'm a KU Jayhawk).

Is it possible that you have a hard time accepting the fact that someone could be so opposed to a guy that otherwise seems so charismatic and winsome? If anything, I am kind of suspicious of people who emotionally sweep other folks off their feet - Folks that buy before they try do drive me crazy - I have a prejudice against folks who lead their arguments with emotional appeals - It revolts me somewhat. I'm not saying this as a justification; Im saying this to illucidate how I and many other middle-aged guys feel. Perhaps, I'm jaded. However, even as s a young person I found myself loathing people that were popular yet vacuous. I find Obama an interesting combination of nuance and complexity - yet, as a thinker outrageously shallow and as a man of action surprisingly demure. These are tough seemingly contradictory combinations, but Obama seems to be able to pull it off. The Pied Piper blows his pipe...

Quite amazing.


Three Soldier Dad...Chuck