Thanks from across the pond

Ruby2Shoes · 03-16-2006, 21:06

Mr Reaper

The 'slow flying jet' part sounds about right. It wasn't a chopper because he said plane but he was disappointed that it wasn't a fast jet, so it was clearly something in between.

Would this A10 have the capability of this kind of extraction? I don't know if the blokes are usually winched up or if they just hang on and then drop off. He often seems to jump (parachute-less although he's airbourne too) from some great heights. Do you think they would be winched up routinely in which case the A10 would need to have a suitable hatch underneath? If there are any SF pilots out there, couldn't you ask around to see who did this extraction this week? I would really like to personally thank them.

I know a bit about British planes because I used to work in Gibraltar which had the RAF based out there but I'm an idiot when it comes to anyone else's airforces.

Talking of jumping from great heights, during his recent leave he jumped from a girl's 2nd floor window the next morning as her parents were waking up. He apparently left two very large heel marks in the lawn. He's a bit of a naughty boy with the girls!

GunPig · 03-16-2006, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby2Shoes

Mr Reaper

The 'slow flying jet' part sounds about right. It wasn't a chopper because he said plane but he was disappointed that it wasn't a fast jet, so it was clearly something in between.

Would this A10 have the capability of this kind of extraction? I don't know if the blokes are usually winched up or if they just hang on and then drop off. He often seems to jump (parachute-less although he's airbourne too) from some great heights. Do you think they would be winched up routinely in which case the A10 would need to have a suitable hatch underneath? If there are any SF pilots out there, couldn't you ask around to see who did this extraction this week? I would really like to personally thank them.

I know a bit about British planes because I used to work in Gibraltar which had the RAF based out there but I'm an idiot when it comes to anyone else's airforces.

Talking of jumping from great heights, during his recent leave he jumped from a girl's 2nd floor window the next morning as her parents were waking up. He apparently left two very large heel marks in the lawn. He's a bit of a naughty boy with the girls!

Ruby2Shoes

What you describe is very puzzling and perhaps...just perhaps...there are some wires crossed in the message. I am involved in US Air Forces...specifically Special Operations aircraft, with 30 years experience and a Master's degree in Aeronautical Science. Please riddle me this Mum; if a fixed wing aircraft such as the A-10 picked someone up via a cable supended by a balloon, and somehow gets winched up under the aircraft...just how will the aircraft land without killing the suspended individual? An A-10 does not "hover" to let people off...instead it lands at about 80-100 MPH depending on how heavy it is. To keep from becoming "runway Pizza, just how would soemone keep from getting dragged on the runway by a cable? Does he hang onto the pylon/bomb rack? Does he climb over the wing and hang on for dear life like a 1920s "barnstormer? What about multiple personnel like you described..the plane only has one seat...and it's under glass ...and occupied by the Pilot. No room for passengers now is there.

I don't think they would parachute to safety once out of harms way either since a parachute would likely be more a a hazard than an asset. If the parachute would open when being "towed" the aircraft would experience control problems and the person being extracted would likely be ripped in two. I'm not sure what sort of "hatch" underneath an A-10 would do either, the A-10 can not fly without the weight of the gun as ballast and even if it could, there's not room for one person in the gun bay let alone three. The only American I know who has ever attemped such a feat is Bill Braxley...have you heard of him 'cross the pond?

What you describe seems more like a helo emergency extraction...cable, but no balloon.

Who wouldn't like Pie & Chips?

Gunpig

sf11b_p · 03-16-2006, 22:39

This thread reminded me of something. A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets". I was surprised to see the method in a '44 or '45 war movie.

Turns out it was the "All American System" and it was used by the military as early as '43 and an earlier system used in the '20s for mail.

**The Reaper** · 03-16-2006, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf11b_p

This thread reminded me of something. A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets". I was surprised to see the method in a '44 or '45 war movie.

Turns out it was the "All American System" and it was used by the military as early as '43 and an earlier system used in the '20s for mail.

I met a retired glider rider who rode the recovery out. He said that it was the worst experience of his life. Made jumping look easy.

The recovery method in The Green Berets is the Fulton "STAR" we discussed. Killed a lot of people, and almost got a general in the early 60s.

We used to teach that glider recovery type method for message pick-ups, or essentially, mail service.

TR

sf11b_p · 03-16-2006, 23:01

As hard as the landings were for the Glider troops it's hard to believe they'd try to pick one up that way.

The Fulton impressed me as a ride I would never want to try either.

Heh, and now that you mention Generals almost got, it reminded me of another story I heard.

Do you know anything of an experiment door mounting .50s onto the UH1s during Vietnam?

CPTAUSRET · 03-16-2006, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf11b_p

As hard as the landings were for the Glider troops it's hard to believe they'd try to pick one up that way.

The Fulton impressed me as a ride I would never want to try either.

Heh, and now that you mention Generals almost got, it reminded me of another story I heard.

Do you know anything of an experiment door mounting .50s onto the UH1s during Vietnam?

We had one or two, used them as flare ships.

Terry

sf11b_p · 03-17-2006, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

We had one or two, used them as flare ships.

Terry

I was told a story, and maybe just that, that there was some experimentation with replacing the UH1s M-60 pedestal door gun with a .50. That a high ranking officer wanted to be first to try, but someone forgot the pins to secure the gun on the swivel mount and the gun jumped up and smacked the officer. That, according to the story, was the end of having a .50 door gunner in a Huey.

M4Guru · 03-17-2006, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I met a retired glider rider who rode the recovery out. He said that it was the worst experience of his life. Made jumping look easy.

The recovery method in The Green Berets is the Fulton "STAR" we discussed. Killed a lot of people, and almost got a general in the early 60s.

We used to teach that glider recovery type method for message pick-ups, or essentially, mail service.

TR

When I went about a year ago they still taught the message pick-up, probably with the same 70-year old man hoisting the canisters. That dude is hard as woddpecker lips. Still jumps out of airplanes...

**Pete** · 03-17-2006, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf11b_p

......A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets"......

The movie was Operation Burma, made back in the good ol' days of the left coast movie making.

The Brits also have a number of good B/W war morvies. We just never get a chance to see them.

Pete

Warrior-Mentor · 03-17-2006, 10:54

Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?

**The Reaper** · 03-17-2006, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?

Not to my knowledge, by either the MC or the AFSOC.

You want to go from zero to 100+kts. and up to 500 feet in about a second, then fly through the air tied to a rope with three other dudes while they winch you in across the ramp??

TR

CPTAUSRET · 03-17-2006, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?

I think it will be fairly soon, I also think it is the wrong aircraft!

Terry

**Kyobanim** · 03-17-2006, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?

Funny you should mention that. We've had one dressed up in green military clothes flying east to west and back for a couple of weeks here in Orlando. First time I saw it I didn't hear it until it was right over me, no buildings around, I was at a park surrounded by trees. Seemed to be noise stealthy at least. The person flying that thing is jerking it all over the sky. Pretty cool to witness.

Warrior-Mentor · 03-17-2006, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyobanim

Funny you should mention that. We've had one dressed up in green military clothes flying east to west and back for a couple of weeks here in Orlando. First time I saw it I didn't hear it until it was right over me, no buildings around, I was at a park surrounded by trees. Seemed to be noise stealthy at least. The person flying that thing is jerking it all over the sky. Pretty cool to witness.

Only asked because it seamed like about the only "plane" I could think of that might be able to perform a multiple person extract described by Ms. 2shoes.
JM

Ruby2Shoes · 03-17-2006, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunPig

Ruby2Shoes

What you describe is very puzzling and perhaps...just perhaps...there are some wires crossed in the message. I am involved in US Air Forces...specifically Special Operations aircraft, with 30 years experience and a Master's degree in Aeronautical Science. Please riddle me this Mum; if a fixed wing aircraft such as the A-10 picked someone up via a cable supended by a balloon, and somehow gets winched up under the aircraft...just how will the aircraft land without killing the suspended individual? An A-10 does not "hover" to let people off...instead it lands at about 80-100 MPH depending on how heavy it is. To keep from becoming "runway Pizza, just how would soemone keep from getting dragged on the runway by a cable? Does he hang onto the pylon/bomb rack? Does he climb over the wing and hang on for dear life like a 1920s "barnstormer? What about multiple personnel like you described..the plane only has one seat...and it's under glass ...and occupied by the Pilot. No room for passengers now is there.

I don't think they would parachute to safety once out of harms way either since a parachute would likely be more a a hazard than an asset. If the parachute would open when being "towed" the aircraft would experience control problems and the person being extracted would likely be ripped in two. I'm not sure what sort of "hatch" underneath an A-10 would do either, the A-10 can not fly without the weight of the gun as ballast and even if it could, there's not room for one person in the gun bay let alone three. The only American I know who has ever attemped such a feat is Bill Braxley...have you heard of him 'cross the pond?

What you describe seems more like a helo emergency extraction...cable, but no balloon.

Who wouldn't like Pie & Chips?

Gunpig

Gunpig

I've already said that I may have some wires crossed re: the plane. It's clearly not the B10 that I thought I heard. I didn't suggest the A10, someone else on here did. I don't know your planes... hence the discussion! (Without the need for silly remarks, thank you.)

However, some of this I definitely haven't misunderstood because I've heard it plenty of times before. Are you suggesting that there's no such thing as a 'fast jet extraction' because I know that there is - certainly with our jets anyway. There was definitely a balloon involved which, again, I've heard about before. He sounded disappointed that it was a plane and not a "fast jet".

He wouldn't bother mentioning a helo extraction - that's fairly normal stuff.

It was an American plane (he specifically mentioned that because he was pleased that the yanks had helped), it's gun had been replaced by the hook, it was a multiple extraction (it had to be!). I thought he said "bomber" but can't be certain of that. But I've no idea if they were winched up, towed or how they landed. I've sent a text to him to see if I can find out any more although I've no idea when I'll get a reply.

To be honest, lads, I've heard about these extractions enough times before but not bothered to wonder how they actually worked. I knew they were dangerous but, until you all started talking, I actually didn't realise just what a death-defying feat they are. I'm wracking my brains now to remember details of these extractions when he's talked about them in the past. The only other thing I recall him saying in the past is that the cable's 500ft long. I can see you're puzzled over the details and so am I now. But please don't doubt the veracity because this stuff happens, certainly with our boys, although it's obviously not an every day occurrence (because, thankfully, they're not in that kind of pickle every day).

Just a thought: could they have been dropped into water? I say this because I know of a time last year when he did something similar although not in the form of an exfiltration and not a million miles away from your locale either.

Why on earth would they open their parachutes whilst being towed? Of course that's insane. But they could unhook their harnesses and then open chutes as soon as they were over safe territory. All of the lads involved (and I know some of them very well) are para-trained.

I'm afraid I haven't heard of Bill Braxley.

Talking of aircraft, let me know your thoughts on this one: Last year he & his bunch were parachuted into somewhere I can't mention. They were supposed to be dropped into a lake by the Herc but the female navigator cocked up and dropped them into trees at the edge of the lake (I think she wasn't SF trained). Few minor scrapes occurred and they were a bit ruffled but otherwise ok. They then swam out into the lake where the SBS were waiting in ribs, leaning out and hooking them into the ribs with hoops. A Chinook then literally went into the water with its back open and the ribs drove straight into the Chinook and they flew away to do the things they do. He said that the water was absolutely filthy and he got a toe infection from it. I found the Chinook bit incredible but I don't know if it's routine or not. You're probably going to tell me now that it couldn't have been a Chinook!

As for pie and chips... my dear, are you a chav?