Germany Negotiates with Terrorists

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

germany did not "negotiate" with terrorists they capitulated, gave up, gave in, surrenders etc etc etc. A revolting display of National cowardice, spinlessness.

Team Sergeant,

I gotta admit, I'd rather seen those mofos taken out by the GSG9 or KSK, too. I ain't sure why it didn't happen but it surely doesn't have to do anything with cowardice.

As you might know, kidnapping's a business down there. In Yemen for instance they often take and hold people for relatively small ransom or for reasons of local politics (e.g. building roads and stuff).

And that violent abduction had a obvious pattern which suggests to me that that was not really political. So Germany just played the game as most countries do in those situations.

And Germans are usally not even negotiating with real terrorist, look here:

[...] the RAF tried to exert additional pressure by hijacking the Lufthansa airplane Landshut on October 13 with the help of the allied Palestinian terrorist group PFLP. After a long odyssey through the Arabian Peninsula and the killing of Captain Jürgen Schumann, the terrorists and their hostages landed in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia.

After political negotiations with the Somali leader Siad Barre, the German government was granted permission to assault the plane. This was carried out on October 18 by the special task force GSG-9, which had been formed after the 1972 Munich Olympics hostage crisis. All hostages were freed without injuries; only one terrorist aboard survived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Autumn



Glück ab,
Mercenary

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Team Sergeant,

I gotta admit, I'd rather seen those mofos taken out by the GSG9 or KSK, too. I ain't sure why it didn't happen but it surely doesn't have to do anything with cowardice.

As you might know, kidnapping's a business down there. In Yemen for instance they often take and hold people for relatively small ransom or for reasons of local politics (e.g. building roads and stuff).

And that violent abduction had a obvious pattern which suggests to me that that was not really political. So Germany just played the game as most countries do in those situations.

And Germans are usally not even negotiating with real terrorist, look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Autumn



Glück ab,
Mercenary

Mercenary,


Any member's first post on this board needs to be an introduction in the introduction thread. We also fill out our profiles so the other members have an understanding as to who they are talking to.

Read the stickies at the top of the forums too.


Have a very SF day.

Doc

[Mercenary]

Doc,

I'm sorry, I noticed myself a few minutes later. Hope you'll forgive me



Glück ab,
CodeRed

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Team Sergeant,

I gotta admit, I'd rather seen those mofos taken out by the GSG9 or KSK, too. I ain't sure why it didn't happen but it surely doesn't have to do anything with cowardice.

Mercenary

Mercenary,

I’m not going to argue with you, you’re 18 and entitled to your opinion.
That said, it’s quite clear that the terrorists have put the fear of god into the German people, that’s what they do and it is apparent that this time it worked.

Team Sergeant

[rubberneck]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Mercenary,

I’m not going to argue with you, you’re 18 and entitled to your opinion.
That said, it’s quite clear that the terrorists have put the fear of god into the German people, that’s what they do and it is apparent that this time it worked.

Team Sergeant

That and the new German PM's hold on power is weak at best and needs to appease the far left of German politics to hold on to that power. Either way it sucks. And it sucks that we haven't taken matters into our own hands, yet.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Mercenary,

I’m not going to argue with you, you’re 18 and entitled to your opinion.
That said, it’s quite clear that the terrorists have put the fear of god into the German people, that’s what they do and it is apparent that this time it worked.

Team Sergeant

Just like in 1972.

I think a good thesis could be made as to whether the Europeans have the intestinal fortitude to actively participate in the GWOT, or whether they will just pay the terrorists off till it is their turn to fall individually. Kind of like the 1937-1945 period, on a lower level of intensity.

The French have been reliable collaborators and providers of sanctuary to terrorists for many years. The Spaniards bailed on us, and the Italians paid to get their Socialist, Islamo-fascist loving bitch back.

The only way to deal with terrorists is to never negotiate except as a means to delay while setting up the trap. I think that by and large, the US government is like that, as are the Israelis and the Brits. Most of the other Euros will hide and hope that the boogeyman never comes for them. I believe that a good look at the threat, internal and external would demonstrate the fallacy of that logic, but some seem to see it as a viable CoA.

TR

[Stiletto11]

History does repeat itself and they never learn. Now that Iran is going NUKE let's see how the Europeans play this one. Maybe they'll let Israel handle this one.

[Mercenary]

US journalist freed by paying ransom
Another US citizen freed by ransom

From the Army-Site:

ELN Hostage-taking, March 23, 1999:
Armed guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen in Boyaca, Colombia. The National Liberation Army (ELN) claimed responsibility and demanded $400,000 ransom. On 20 July, ELN rebels released the hostage unharmed following a ransom payment of $48,000.

FARC Kidnapping, March 7, 1997:
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. mining employee and his Colombian colleague who were searching for gold in Colombia. On November 16, the rebels released the two hostages after receiving a $50,000 ransom.

Helicopter Hijacking, October 12, 2000:
[...] the Popular Liberation Army (EPL), took hostage 10 employees of Spanish energy consortium REPSOL. Those kidnapped included five U.S. citizens, one Argentine, one Chilean, one New Zealander, and two French pilots who escaped four days later. On January 30, 2001, the kidnappers murdered American hostage Ronald Sander. The remaining hostages were released on February 23 following the payment of $13 million in ransom by the oil companies.

Just because I'm 18 doesn't mean I'm a moron at politics. I really respect your work and what you might do/have done on the GWOT, no question about that. I think you shouldn't negoiate with terrorist either. In my point of view giving them ransom so they can buy weapons and equipment is the worst thing to do but you can't kick their ass in every situation. You actually should but it's (obviously) not always possible.

I don't understand why Europe and especially Germany is rather passive in participating the GWOT but that might change when we learn our own lesson teached by terrorist. The Soccer World Cup in Germany this year could be a target of terrorist attacks and then we'll see.

rubberneck,

what do you mean by 'taking matters into our own hands'?



Glück ab,
Mercenary

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

US journalist freed by paying ransom
Another US citizen freed by ransom

From the Army-Site:






Just because I'm 18 doesn't mean I'm a moron at politics. I really respect your work and what you might do/have done on the GWOT, no question about that. I think you shouldn't negoiate with terrorist either. In my point of view giving them ransom so they can buy weapons and equipment is the worst thing to do but you can't kick their ass in every situation. You actually should but it's (obviously) not always possible.

I don't understand why Europe and especially Germany is rather passive in participating the GWOT but that might change when we learn our own lesson teached by terrorist. The Soccer World Cup in Germany this year could be a target of terrorist attacks and then we'll see.

rubberneck,

what do you mean by 'taking matters into our own hands'?



Glück ab,
Mercenary

I will tell you this once, and only once. Get your head out of your ass and stop mixing apples with oranges. Private companies can do what they like, WE are talking about governments.

Your age is showing. You'd better re-think your argument.

[CoLawman]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

US journalist freed by paying ransom
Another US citizen freed by ransom

From the Army-Site:






Just because I'm 18 doesn't mean I'm a moron at politics. I really respect your work and what you might do/have done on the GWOT, no question about that. I think you shouldn't negoiate with terrorist either. In my point of view giving them ransom so they can buy weapons and equipment is the worst thing to do but you can't kick their ass in every situation. You actually should but it's (obviously) not always possible.

I don't understand why Europe and especially Germany is rather passive in participating the GWOT but that might change when we learn our own lesson teached by terrorist. The Soccer World Cup in Germany this year could be a target of terrorist attacks and then we'll see.

rubberneck,

what do you mean by 'taking matters into our own hands'?



Glück ab,
Mercenary

I believe you cite these cases as examples of what you believe is hypocrisy.
But your rebuttal misses the mark. In all of the cases you cite the United States government did not pay a ransom, or release terrorists in exchange for American hostages.

You will find many here who have spent a fair amount of time in Germany in service to your country, including myself. Germany would be a welcomed and effective ally in the GWOT.

Personally, I feel that Germany's stance since 9/11 is inexcusable. Their freeing of one of America's most wanted terrorists is just one more example of their arrogance and ungrateful bent.

Your posts reflect a very bright and articulate individual. Your rush to defend the honor of your country is understandable. If you want to be enlightened regarding our stance, research the following:

1. What country has spilled more blood on foriegn soil in spreading freedom?
2. What country has freed more people from oppression?
3. Annually what country is the largest donor nation?
4. What country for the past 60 years has been Germany's most loyal and dependable ally?
5. What country (based on polls) is the most detested?
6. Why is "Ich bin ein Berliner" and "Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall." so significant.

Your moniker, does little to endear or impress. By definition, you choose to label yourself as a person with far different motivation than a Quiet Professional or an American soldier, sailor, airman and Marine.

They do or did their job as a service to their country, and countries around the world without concern for financial gain. Their pay is grossly substandard and not commensurate with their true value.

Guten Tag!

[HOLLiS]

Wow the germans are now speaking french.... say it ain't so.

[rubberneck]

rubberneck,

what do you mean by 'taking matters into our own hands'?

I mean I look forward to the day that we visit vengence on Hammadi and the rest of his cohorts in the middle of the night. We should then place their heads on pikes as a warning to all others that justice will be done no matter how long it takes. Even is our "allies" are a bunch of spineless pussies. There was a day where Germany would have laid waste to the entire mid east to make a point. Now you guys are no better than the French. As a US citizen of German desent it makes me want to vomit.