01-22-2004, 20:05
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#1
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Quiet Professional
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Location: LA
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Some Definitions
Feel free to disagree:
"Insurgency may be defined as a struggle between a nonruling group and the ruling authorities in which the nonruling group consciously uses political resources (e.g. organizational expertise, propaganda, and demonstrations) and violence to destroy, reformulate, or sustain the basis of legitimacy of one or more aspects of politics (political community, political system, authorities, policies)." - Insurgency and Terrorism - Bard E. O'Neill
"An insurgent or revolutionary movement is defined as a subversive, illegal attempt to weaken, modify, or replace an existing governing authority through the protracted use or threatened use of force by an organized group of indigenous people outside the established governing structure." -HFCUI - HQS DA
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-22-2004, 20:10
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#2
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Joint Publication 1-02, DoD Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms (1994), defines "unconventional warfare" as "a broad spectrum of military and paramilitary operations, normally of long duration, predominantly conducted by indigenous or surrogate forces who are organized, trained, equipped, supported and directed in varying degrees by an external source. It includes guerrilla warfare and other direct offensive, low visibility, covert or clandestine operations, as well as the indirect activities of subversion, sabotage, intelligence activities, and evasion and escape."
Guerrilla Warfare - Military and paramilitary operations conducted in enemy-held or hostile territory by irregular, predominantly indigenous forces. Also called GW. -DOD & NATO
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
Last edited by NousDefionsDoc; 01-22-2004 at 20:33.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-18-2005, 06:08
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#3
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More Words to Know
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Guerrilla Warfare - Military and paramilitary operations conducted in enemy-held or hostile territory by irregular, predominantly indigenous forces. Also called GW. -DOD & NATO
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Could you throw up Overt, Covert and Clandestine out of the book for the younger crowd? The MSN still can not keep them straight.
Pete
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Pete is offline
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02-18-2005, 08:59
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#4
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pete
Could you throw up Overt, Covert and Clandestine out of the book for the younger crowd? The MSN still can not keep them straight.
Pete
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overt operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation conducted openly, without concealment.
covert operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation that is so planned and executed as to conceal the identity of or permit plausible denial by the sponsor. A covert operation differs from a clandestine operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of identity of sponsor rather than on concealment of the operation
clandestine operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation sponsored or conducted by governmental departments or agencies in such a way as to assure secrecy or concealment. A clandestine operation differs from a covert operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of the operation rather than on concealment of identity of sponsor. In special operations, an activity may be both covert and clandestine and may focus equally on operational considerations and intelligence-related activities.
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Team Sergeant is offline
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02-18-2005, 09:14
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#5
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Team Sergeant
overt operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation conducted openly, without concealment.
covert operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation that is so planned and executed as to conceal the identity of or permit plausible denial by the sponsor. A covert operation differs from a clandestine operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of identity of sponsor rather than on concealment of the operation
clandestine operation. [JP 1-02] (DoD) An operation sponsored or conducted by governmental departments or agencies in such a way as to assure secrecy or concealment. A clandestine operation differs from a covert operation in that emphasis is placed on concealment of the operation rather than on concealment of identity of sponsor. In special operations, an activity may be both covert and clandestine and may focus equally on operational considerations and intelligence-related activities.
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Hmmm! I guess that means we conducted clandestine operations in SOG in order to conduct covert operations by planting "funny ammo" attributed to the CHICOMs. 
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QRQ 30 is offline
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02-18-2005, 09:56
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#6
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some definitions
Men:
IMHO the bottom line definition of Revolution is whatever means we used to put us in power and Insurgency is whatever means the other guys use to try to take our power away.
If we are caught by surprise it was terrorism, unconventional, covert, guerilla, henious, terrible, atrocious, etc.
If we are defending ourselves it is called Counter- ***** whatever it is as we would never initiate hostilities would we?
So that all being said, what do we call what Teddy Boy (the swimmer), the Boxer Babe, schmuck face Schumer, Billary Klinton and the rest of the group who are marching to Kruschev's orders to destroy us from within using our own system?
An inquiring mind wants to know.
Joe L
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SFRADIOMAN is offline
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01-22-2004, 20:25
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#7
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Insurgency is a sub-set of UW.
An insurgency may be a part of UW, but not the other way around.
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The Reaper is offline
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01-24-2004, 08:26
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#8
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so, an insurgency could very well be unconventional war in it's infancy. ignore it and it will grow and gain momentun and support. especially when the ruling govt imposes tighter and tighter attempts to restrict rights of the citizenry and curtail the insurgency. even if the citizenry perceives that their rights are being diminished the fires of uw will be fanned. the result would be an inevitable growth of distrust, and fear in the established govt, and an increase in the growth of dissention, and the likelihood of an uprising.
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if you are not in the lead you are probably looking up someone else's backside
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froglegz is offline
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01-24-2004, 09:02
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#9
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Quote:
Originally posted by jerry morris
so, an insurgency could very well be unconventional war in it's infancy. ignore it and it will grow and gain momentun and support. especially when the ruling govt imposes tighter and tighter attempts to restrict rights of the citizenry and curtail the insurgency. even if the citizenry perceives that their rights are being diminished the fires of uw will be fanned. the result would be an inevitable growth of distrust, and fear in the established govt, and an increase in the growth of dissention, and the likelihood of an uprising.
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Hey, are you some kind of REVOLUTIONARY?
That would be how this country was founded!
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The Reaper is offline
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01-24-2004, 14:03
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#10
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you know the answer to that..... just a bunch of dirty little boys hiding in the woods doing dirty little things to the british... it is an evolution of sorts...
in discussing the differences between insurgency and gw wouldn't an evaluation or comparison of the role popular support plays be significant? one man's revolutionary... and all that!! 
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if you are not in the lead you are probably looking up someone else's backside
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froglegz is offline
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01-24-2004, 17:16
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#11
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I don't think there are differences between an insurgency and gw - I was taught that gw and the underground are the two black pieces of insurgency.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-24-2004, 19:26
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#12
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Quote:
Originally posted by HFCUIDOC
I don't think there are differences between an insurgency and gw - I was taught that gw and the underground are the two black pieces of insurgency.
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Didn't say insurgency and GW, I said insurgency and UW, which is a different animal.
GW is also a sub-set of UW.
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The Reaper is offline
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01-25-2004, 10:05
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#13
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Quiet Professional
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No, you didn't, but Jerry did. I should have quoted the original. Sorry.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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01-25-2004, 10:12
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#14
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by HFCUIDOC
No, you didn't, but Jerry did. I should have quoted the original. Sorry.
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No worries, my bad.
Jerry hasn't been around us for a while, it may take him a while to catch up.
Do you have the reading list for him?
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-25-2004, 10:20
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#15
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Quote:
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Do you have the reading list for him?
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LOL - I have breakfast with a client now. I'll get it for him when I get back. He won't read it though, those Echoes think they know already.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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