Rucksacks

Para · 03-31-2005, 06:22

I find this interesting. There are 3 rucksacks issued:

ALICE, been around since Jesus
http://www.mil-kit-review.com/assets/images/alice1.jpg

MOLLE
http://www.special-warfare.net/data_...ackpack_03.jpg

SPEARS
http://www.gregorypacks.com/images/p...backpack_l.jpg

I along with everyone else on this board have years under the ALICE ruck. I have tried to pack 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag and have experienced the "if you haven't broken this frame, you haven't carried enough weight" aluminum frame. Yet, this seems to continue to be the preferred ruck amongst those able to make a choice. Benefit: Light, large opening Disadvantage: If you want something at the bottom, you have to empty it. Aluminum external frame

MOLLE: I have no experience with this one, yet seems to be the ruck conventional army is switching to. Slightly larger ruck with a seperate sleeping compartment attached to the bottom. Still an external frame and have heard complaints from more then one person regarding the frame cracking under weight.

SPEAR's: Made by Gregory Mountain Products, a mountain pack manufacture, for the military with an internal frame and suspension harness. Largest capacity of the 3 with a weight limit at 125 lbs. While that may appear extreme, it is realistic in some situations. Access points on the top as well as the bottom through the sleeping compartment. Disadvantage: Weight and the body is not as wide.

What I find interesting is that most seem to prefer using the ALICE and a few go with the MOLLE, but I have yet to see anyone using the SPEAR's version. What is your ruck preference? Why?

Side note: I have been looking at this one designed by Kelty.

http://www.amronintl.com/tactical/products.cfm?id=646

Surgicalcric · 03-31-2005, 07:11

Have you given any thought to Kifaru?

Having only limited time under the green tick I dont have a preference as to an alternative, but can tell you at my first available juncture I will be finding something other then the ALICE pack.

A for the Kelty pack, Brad has one of them at the Lightfighter Store here on Bragg Blvd if you would like a closer look.

Crip

Para · 03-31-2005, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Have you given any thought to Kifaru?

Having only limited time under the green tick I dont have a preference as to an alternative, but can tell you at my first available juncture I will be finding something other then the ALICE pack.

A for the Kelty pack, Brad has one of them at the Lightfighter Store here on Bragg Blvd if you would like a closer look.

Crip

My preference from civilian experience is internal frame. I like the load carry better. Always feels like I am carrying substantially less weight. I have looked, briefly, at Kifaru but my civilian experience is with Kelty and I am really impressed with their stuff. Their MMR has roughly the same features, but twice the price. The biggest feature I like is the side zippers that allows for another access point to the main compartment without having to unpack. Group gave us Kelty MAP 3500's and I like the mesh back for airflow. I wasn't aware Lightfighter was carrying Kelty. I will have to stop by for a look.

Surgicalcric · 03-31-2005, 08:06

I dont know that Brad is stocking them, but there is one on the wall there with the rest of the packs. It is OD.

I am with you on the internal frame packs. I have a Marauder and a Zulu and enjoy them both, but neither have the internal capacity of an ALICE. The Marauder is going to be used as an Aid Bag (if I ever get that far...No comments from the Peanut gallery.) The Zulu is more of an intermediate bag and with the modularity that comes with the PALS coverage on the exterior I could damn near add enough pouches to get it close to the CI of an ALICE, but in no way would I want to. I think this would throw the balance/wear characteristics off. I like the MMR and EMR as well, but damn 4 Washingtons and change.

Other than the mesh backing how does the MAP 3500 stack up against other 3-day/assault packs?

As for comfort in the short term, have you given any thought to an ALIPAD from HighSpeed Gear Inc? Again, I dont have one, yet, but there are several of the TAC's here who have them and swear by them. I know of a couple guys out at Sage now who purchased them to make an ALICE more user friendly.

just my uneducated .02 YMMV

Crip

casey · 03-31-2005, 08:58

Traded a large ALICE for a Bergen once. That thing could hold more shit that a Ford F-150. Course this may explain why I always got stuck with most of the spare battery's and ammo.

miller0331 · 10-07-2005, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by casey

Traded a large ALICE for a Bergen once. That thing could hold more shit that a Ford F-150. Course this may explain why I always got stuck with most of the spare battery's and ammo.

I like that! " Hold more shit than an F-150"...

In the reserve unit I was in here (many years ago...) I was using a black and green REI Morning Star. It was like a footlocker with straps! It held like 5000 ci of gear, internal frame, and padding that would not quit. It was nice as it was a top loading but had access from a front panel also and a zippered section for your bag. Another thing I liked about it, it had a place to slide skis down the sides under the pockets there and mesh pockets on the waist for Nalgene bottles and a detachable waist pack that was waterproof and had a map pocket.

The only thing is, once the Gunney saw that pack, he knew who was going to end up carring all the spare batts and ammo. I think that pack held more shit than deuce and a half!

I was issued a Med ALICE during my active stint and wasn't overly impressed because (1) it killed my back (fixed that with an isomat and riggers tape) (2) it did not hold enough gear for a long CAX. Also, the frames would bend or crack after being thrown out of/into a truck or really rough handling. By the time I turned mine in, it looked like a 100 miles of riggers tape, isomat, and wire....

The ALICE was a good idea at the time but with all the new materials and new thinking in ergonomics, the newer issue rucks are so much better.

Para · 03-31-2005, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Other than the mesh backing how does the MAP 3500 stack up against other 3-day/assault packs?

At 3500 cu.in. it provides a lot of capacity. Consider that the main portion of the MOLLE ruck is only 3000 cu.in. It has the hydration pouch and the heavily padded shoulder straps made from the same mesh material. They are positioned closer in on the collar bone and don't ride out on the shoulders. As an Echo, it would be nice if it had a radio pouch.

Quote:

As for comfort in the short term, have you given any thought to an ALIPAD from HighSpeed Gear Inc? Again, I dont have one, yet, but there are several of the TAC's here who have them and swear by them. I know of a couple guys out at Sage now who purchased them to make an ALICE more user friendly.

I have pretty much sworn off the ALICE at this point and will use the MOLLE if need be. I am going to start using the SPEAR's UM21 over the next month to see how I like it. I am in charge of PT for the next month, so time to do some rucking. I just wish it had the side zipper and hydration pouch.

Since we are talking about ALICE frames, Mystery Ranch, who if I remember right, developed the suspension harness system, manufactured a frame for the ALICE called the nice Frame. Although, it is some coin at $219.

Surgicalcric · 03-31-2005, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Para

...Since we are talking about ALICE frames, Mystery Ranch, who if I remember right, developed the suspension harness system, manufactured a frame for the ALICE called the nice Frame. Although, it is some coin at $219.

I have seen them, but for $219.00 plus the price of an Alice, plus mods to the pack itself to make it user friendly I could just buy an EMR/MMR or 2 of the Kelty's.

And on the note of PT. I would rather ruck everyday of the week than run twice. Some of the guys here swear I move as fast with the ruck on as I do running ...ahhh.

Crip

GreenSalsa · 03-31-2005, 07:17

But she is sweeter and more reliable than any of the others...
in the end I carry ALICE.

lksteve · 03-31-2005, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Para

I find this interesting. There are 3 rucksacks issued:

ALICE, been around since Jesus

SPEARS
http://www.gregorypacks.com/images/p...backpack_l.jpg

I along with everyone else on this board have years under the ALICE ruck. I have tried to pack 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag and have experienced the "if you haven't broken this frame, you haven't carried enough weight" aluminum frame. Yet, this seems to continue to be the preferred ruck amongst those able to make a choice. Benefit: Light, large opening Disadvantage: If you want something at the bottom, you have to empty it. Aluminum external frame

What I find interesting is that most seem to prefer using the ALICE and a few go with the MOLLE, but I have yet to see anyone using the SPEAR's version. What is your ruck preference? Why?

Side note: I have been looking at this one designed by Kelty.

i liked the old mountain rucks, somewhat like the Brits' Bergen...it had a lot of the favorable attributes of the ALICE, in my opinion, the weight of the ruck was better distributed and the frame hardly ever bent or deformed...for awhile, i used the frame for an ALICE but some AH with nothing better to worry about than uniformity put the brakes on that endeavor...when i was in BT, we tried the Lowe's system, with detachable pockets, zip-on, zip off stuff, an internal frame, somewhat akin to the SPEARS in appearance....stuff dropped off when going through the woods, it was hard to rig for airborne operations and the zippers rarely worked in cold, icy weather...we gravitated back to the ALICE because, while it didn't hold enough stuff, it was reliable...yeah, i bent my share of frames over the years, but compared to having a pocket with your dry socks in it drop off in the Isar River, it was worth the trade off...

when i was a company commander in Alaska, Natick came up to do a study on soldiers' load...our average ruck, moving about in the Arctic, was around100 pounds...basically, a troop carried his MOPP stuff, two sleeping bags, ammo, socks, food, dry clothes, ponchos, etc...the ALICE packs were filled to the bursting point and they were looking for a solution...it seems, 16 years later, they are still looking...

alright4u · 06-14-2010, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lksteve

i liked the old mountain rucks, somewhat like the Brits' Bergen...it had a lot of the favorable attributes of the ALICE, in my opinion, the weight of the ruck was better distributed and the frame hardly ever bent or deformed...for awhile, i used the frame for an ALICE but some AH with nothing better to worry about than uniformity put the brakes on that endeavor...when i was in BT, we tried the Lowe's system, with detachable pockets, zip-on, zip off stuff, an internal frame, somewhat akin to the SPEARS in appearance....stuff dropped off when going through the woods, it was hard to rig for airborne operations and the zippers rarely worked in cold, icy weather...we gravitated back to the ALICE because, while it didn't hold enough stuff, it was reliable...yeah, i bent my share of frames over the years, but compared to having a pocket with your dry socks in it drop off in the Isar River, it was worth the trade off...

when i was a company commander in Alaska, Natick came up to do a study on soldiers' load...our average ruck, moving about in the Arctic, was around100 pounds...basically, a troop carried his MOPP stuff, two sleeping bags, ammo, socks, food, dry clothes, ponchos, etc...the ALICE packs were filled to the bursting point and they were looking for a solution...it seems, 16 years later, they are still looking...

I recall the Mountain, the Jungle, and; the Indig. That is all I recall. We carried the INDIG in our unit on combat OPS. Frankly, I would pay $30 + now for one PIR with shrimp, mushrooms , hot pepper flakes and plus the" fresh bamboo shoots" the yards cut from young bamboo when we were relatively safe. I cannot recall the PIR 's #'s and contents from 1-5, I seem to recall. I was no fan of the mutton PIR. I would trade a yard or any SF to take my PIR mutton.

$lug · 07-12-2010, 07:28

**The Reaper** · 07-12-2010, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by $lug

First post... Thought this reply would ad some interesting eye candy on the various ALICE "types" out there now.

~$lug

Let me ask you, just a wild guess, but have you bothered to read the board stickies and rules yet?

TR

MasterOfMyFate · 07-12-2010, 08:44

I see many people talk about improvements to the ALICE frame and pack because it seems to be 1) the standard or trust worthiness, and 2) simple and familiar to almost EVERYONE. I have seen where some folks have referenced to the Mystery Ranch "NICE frame", and most agree it is just too pricy to even bother giving a try. I came across THIS more simple, WAAAY more cheap improved ALICE frame, and wonder if anyone has any input on it, from either personal experience and/or second hand knowledge:

http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/aliceframe.aspx

WolfPack-5 · 04-03-2013, 10:11

Old habits die hard... I use to own the old ALICE pack, regular size and mountain size, or large recon size... whatever you prefer to call it. Anyway I finally broke down and got the Marine Corps issue MOLLE, and I invested some money in the EBERLESTOCK SKY CRANE pack. I love both of them! They are both excellent packs and they can both take a beating! I got the EBERLESTOCK SKYCRANE with the Built in and detachable riffle scabbard (Why did I get it?) Because I use to be a U.S. Marine Corps Marksmanship Instructor, The Covering Force Commander for F.A.S.T. Company Marines, and a D.M. (Designated Marksman) I carry my M-4 plus my Modified Springfield Armory Carlos Hathcock Addition M-14 (Or M-24 by Springfield Armory) w/scope in the rifle Scabbard. The Eberlestock line of Packs has a good variety of packs for what ever the mission might be. I know this may sound like I am trying to sell you on this product I can assure you I am not. I have packed all my extra ammo for both of my weapon systems plus all my needed essential gear in both packs and they have performed outstanding. But I really love my Eberlestock Pack. This guy has come up with some great innovations for load bearing Packs or Rucks. I am getting Older too so I have come to appreciate comfort and good quality lol! Below is the link. Be your own judge. If you are on a budget then go on Ebay and purchase a U.S. Marine Corps MOLLE Pack. Either way you will not be disappointed. In both packs I have packed them with two sets of BDU's (A set of Civillian Clothes because you never know), Four pairs of socks with shells, Four sets of under garments, Rain gear, and one set of light cold weather under garments (Just incase) 6-MRE's, Extra Camel Bak Filled with water, 100 extra rounds of Ammo for each weapon system, and other miscellaneous survival type items, tent, and sleep system. When you pack out this much gear it pays off to be as comfortable has possible. Physical Conditioning is Paramount! I also have a packing mule and horse to carry me and all my gear. But once they take a shit it's Hump your own gear time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0Vi...e=results_main