Sh!thole...

[Old Dog New Trick]

Proof that Democrats really are stupid.

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Chicago pays tribute to its Haitian founder after Trump allegedly trashes immigrants

https://usat.ly/2msuUSX

Chicago...a shithole then and still a shithole!

[cbtengr]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Proof that Democrats really are stupid.

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Chicago pays tribute to its Haitian founder after Trump allegedly trashes immigrants

https://usat.ly/2msuUSX

Chicago...a shithole then and still a shithole!

Regarding the term "Shithole", Shithole is a term that knows no boundaries, it is a worldwide term. If indeed Trump did use that term then I say bully for him. Finally a leader that speaks his mind and worries not as to the direction of the wind. I most certainly do not find it to be a racist term.

[ddoering]

Definitely not a racist term. What benefit do people from shithole countries bring to the US? I know we had a bed bug problem a few years ago. And mumps, cholera, typhus and perhaps even polio. Thanks a lot shithole people.

[RichL025]

Originally Posted by ddoering

... What benefit do people from shithole countries bring to the US? ....

Good beer, a gift for storytelling and a helluva party come St Paddy's day.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I’ve been to some real shitholes in the world. Haiti being one of the worst and it wasn’t all our undoing, the local population sold their dignity for shiny trinkets and pennies on the dollar. Some of the worst shitholes I’ve been through are right here in America and not by immigrants, at least not black, brown, or other than white immigrants.

If the President of the United States referred to a shithole as a shithole in a private meeting with government leaders of both parties and both parties and the President can agree that the world is full of shitholes and we don’t need any more people from third world shitholes coming here until we can clean up some of our own shitholes.

If any of these Senators, Mayors or other elected officials want to sponsor immigrants from countries with no standards of life or living conditions and they will donate land, housing, utilities and sustenance for the life of those immigrants from their own privately owned lands and family money than I’m all for it.

I had to go over hurdles, jump through hoops of fire with the INS to bring my wife of foreign citizenship here. I had sign so many documents of financial support and swear to the creators of federal bureaucracy that she would not come to America on a non-immigrant visa and run off the join the circus. As such she still had to disclose to the American Embassy her financial situation at home was sufficient if she had to return for reasons of my delinquency. We’ve been married almost 20 years now and she became a US citizens after the birth of our child.

We did everything the right and legal way and at no time have we accepted a handout or free service from the government or American taxpayers.

Why is that so hard for our elected government to grasp?

[RichL025]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

...

If any of these Senators, Mayors or other elected officials want to sponsor immigrants from countries with no standards of life or living conditions and they will donate land, housing, utilities and sustenance for the life of those immigrants from their own privately owned lands and family money than I’m all for it. ...

Yup, WASPs said the same things about my people when we immigrated. (I'm half Irish)

You can call a country a shithole. And I agree, many of those countries ARE shitholes (whether the POTUS should be saying that is another matter).

But I think it's a seperate issue to say we shouldnt be accepting immigrants froma country because its a shithole.

Remind me again, what's written on the tablet the Statue of Liberty holds?

[PSM]

Originally Posted by RichL025

Remind me again, what's written on the tablet the Statue of Liberty holds?

The poem was the winner of a contest to raise funds for the pedestal. It means nothing more.

Pat

[RichL025]

Originally Posted by PSM

The poem was the winner of a contest to raise funds for the pedestal. It means nothing more.

Pat

Oh really? Seems like generations of Americans have held those phrases to mean something more than an advertising jingle.

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by PSM

The poem was the winner of a contest to raise funds for the pedestal. It means nothing more.

Pat

Yep,

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

[Old Dog New Trick]

The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” (Emma Lazarus)


Heck of a nice poem written in the late 1800’s and recognized in 1901 as the symbols of American ideology. Engraved on the base and pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. A far different time indeed. The beginning of the industrial revolution and meant to entice European settlers to leave their homelands and stake claim to the new Americas. It was appropriate for the times as it was not expected or anticipated that just anyone had the means to travel by sailing vessels or steamship from Europe to America - ‘cause you didn’t come from anywhere else at the time.

I mean no disrespect to any human being. I myself am the product of German/Jewish immigrants who escaped Nazi Germany in the 1930’s and Portuguese wanders who came to the shores of America in the late 1800’s or early twentieth century.

I welcome all who can make the difficult journey to America by sea, land or air in modern times. And want to be here to raise families, assimilate with our customs and provide support to our continued way of life through hard work and dedication to professional services.

I have a problem when my government creates the rules (often in violation of the law), provides the incentives and pays the bills to relocate people simply for the sake of diversity. Or in the biggest misuse of power a voting base for one party over the other.

I am a Special Forces Green Beret and understand more than most about the reasons we open our hearts and our borders to people from the worst places on earth to come and live here and to prosper in our graces. Whether because of war, condemnation, or political violence. We are by our motto the protectors and liberators of oppression. And I don’t care what color you are, what religion you practice or what God you warship, what language you speak or how much wealth if any you have. Come to America and make your neighborhoods prosperous and lively. Don’t transplant your previous shithole to your new opportunity to live free and without the repression you escaped from whether you had risk everything or nothing to get here. That is a choice and to often they make the same bad choices that led to living in a crime and gang ridden shithole. Only now it used to be better for everyone who lived there prior to the new arrivals.

JMO YMMV

[RichL025]

I agree with most of what you wrote in that post. This part, however, does not ring true:

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

...
...It was appropriate for the times as it was not expected or anticipated that just anyone had the means to travel by sailing vessels or steamship from Europe to America - ‘cause you didn’t come from anywhere else at the time.
...

There was quite a bit of non-European immigration going on during this time. It just wasn't though Ellis island, so the Statue of Liberty (understandably) became associated with European immigration.

And regarding the "means to travel" - that was not a very high bar at all. Some of my ancestors came over as indentured servants because they otherwise could not afford passage.

Again, they were fleeing shitholes that happened to be European shitholes...

[Old Dog New Trick]

RichL025, if at any point last night you felt I was not inclusive enough to know that those immigrants from the UK and specifically Ireland are not considered part of Europe my apologies. Yes, the Irish have always for some reason beyond my understanding have been excluded from social acceptance. I don’t know why. I know a great many people came to America during the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth centuries and built communities largely isolated from other ethnic groups.

My point was to show (not prove) that the US has had many different criteria’s throughout the years as to who it accepted and who it rejected for immigration purposes before the Immigration and Natralization Act of 1952.

Everything President Trump has proposed in controlling the free exchange of foreign nationals and those here for temporary reasons is within the laws of the INA and has been ignored by presidents and congress alike for political reasons. Often at a detriment of social order.

In regards to DACA many of these illegal immigrants have had many opportunities to become naturalized citizens but for reasons I do not know (understand) have chosen to remain illegal immigrants. Times up! (I secretly know these children don’t want their parents deported by registering and exposing their stories.) That’s too bad. It’s the law!

If you are unhappy with the law change the law! Don’t complain about it and do nothing.

As for St. Paddy’s day I love Guinness, a good Black&Tan with Bass Ale and Colcannon mash potatoes. Throw in some beef stew and I’m as happy as a kilt wearing Celt rebelling against conformity.

[RichL025]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

RichL025, if at any point last night you felt I was not inclusive enough to know that those immigrants from the UK and specifically Ireland are not considered part of Europe my apologies.

No, actually, I was referring to non-white immigrants from asia and latin america which occurred at the same time. Eliis island was only for those coming from Europe (whether you consider the Brit Isles part of it o rnot is a separate discussion <g>)

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

As for St. Paddy’s day I love Guinness, a good Black&Tan with Bass Ale and Colcannon mash potatoes. Throw in some beef stew and I’m as happy as a kilt wearing Celt rebelling against conformity.

Arghhh, yer killin me!

Kilts are Scottish, not Irish (although to be fair some Irish national-identity types started wearing them in the late 1800s / early 1900s, but there is no history before that of Irishmen wearing kilts. Irishmen wearing kilts is basically trying to piggyback on the successful brand from the scotts)

And not only is a "Black and Tan" a waste of a good stout, the name stems from a Protestant paramilitary organization accused of multiple civil rights abuses, some would say terror, against the Catholics. Most of the US Irish diaspora are catholics, so this is like celebrating the KKK on MLK day!

Well, OK, I'm being a _little_ melodramatic and just a touch pedantic. Pet peeve of mine. And I freely admit I am in the annoying minority when I remind most Americans of the above facts.

Still, the "Black and Tan" thing kills me....

Back on track, I agree with you that "dreamers" should not be granted automatic citizenship because their parents broke the law. And I actually agree with what POTUS is doing in trying to force congress to make laws regarding immigration policy, instead of governing by fiat like his predecessor. But justice must also be tempered with mercy, and we have to find a way to not punish innocent people while at the same time not encouraging future lawbreakers (or line-jumpers, if you prefer).

And even if we use the term "lawbreakers" to describe illegal immigrants (they DID break immigration laws after all), I have more than a little sympathy for people trying to escape the 'shitholes' they live in just so they can WORK and provide for their families. Again, my ancestors came here to escape famine and political opression. Ireland was a SHITHOLE in the 18th/19th centuries, as were many other European countries.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by RichL025

No, actually, I was referring to non-white immigrants from asia and latin america which occurred at the same time. Eliis island was only for those coming from Europe (whether you consider the Brit Isles part of it o rnot is a separate discussion <g>)

This thread was inclusive to all immigrants from ‘shitholes’ it was you who made it about the Statue of Liberty and The New Colossus. From their we focused in immigrants from European countries and their arrival at Ellis Island and elsewhere in New York. As there really was no other or extremely low levels of “immigration” from any other countries in the world to the USA. There were some Asians (Japanese and all others) that came through San Francisco or Seattle but most Asians coming from China might just have been blacks coming from Africa. They were slaves not immigrants, and they wouldn’t have ever seen the Statue of Liberty nor heard of the poem inscribed at the base. The southern border at the time of the great migration would have seen more Hispanic and Latin persons traveling south than those coming here from South/Central America. We had pretty much just kicked them all out from Texas to California and closed the border with armies and forts.

Today we don’t have an immigration problem with Europe. Europe has an immigration problem with North Africa, the Mediterranean and West Asia. Some day they will recognize this but for now it’s already too late. They may not think of themselves as a ‘shithole’ but give it time and the small festering cesspools will eventually spill over and consume all that once was Europe and the UK.

Arghhh, yer killin me!

Kilts are Scottish, not Irish (although to be fair some Irish national-identity types started wearing them in the late 1800s / early 1900s, but there is no history before that of Irishmen wearing kilts. Irishmen wearing kilts is basically trying to piggyback on the successful brand from the scotts)

You didn’t see the tongue in cheek humor in that? “kilt wearing Celt railing against conformity.”

And even if we use the term "lawbreakers" to describe illegal immigrants (they DID break immigration laws after all), I have more than a little sympathy for people trying to escape the 'shitholes' they live in just so they can WORK and provide for their families. Again, my ancestors came here to escape famine and political opression. Ireland was a SHITHOLE in the 18th/19th centuries, as were many other European countries.

Did your people bring their “SHITHOLE” with them when they settled in the new America? No, that’s the point of the discussion. Most every immigrant before the last 30-years came to America to escape a shithole and build a new and better life. They who succeeded did it the right way. Whether from Asia, Africa, the Middle East or South America. They waited in line and paid the fees.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

I don't understand the horror and hostility towards the concept of legal immigration and merit-based immigration. If I recall, NZ requires you to have skills or some other desirable traits/assets (successful company) in order to qualify for citizenship, and Wales used to require you to learn the Welsh language within a year in order to continue living there.

And I apologize if my American history is rusty, but didn't the US put a lengthy hiatus in place for taking in large numbers of immigrants in order for them to fully integrate into the fabric of the nation? That is until, TK, the failed amphibious car driver of Chappaquiddick introduced legislation to allow massive numbers of immigrants to enter the country for the specific intent of beefing up the number of registered democrap voters. That's been the MO of the DNC and DC establishment (socialist family tree) ever since. I realize I'm stating the obvious, but by allowing hole-shitters unfettered access to this country, a majority of them illegally, the nightmare of the DNC controlling the policies of our country becomes very real. If this nation is to survive, perhaps we should revisit the idea of reducing the flow of all immigration and make it strictly merit-based.

It's not just the politics that are at stake, foreign hole-shitters are like Kalifornians (not Californians). They allow their state to turn to shit in one form or another, usually economically, decide it's no longer the "diverse/multicultural/inclusive" paradise they "intended" it to be and move to states with less intrusive governments and more available resources (cheaper real estate). But they don't like how those states don't cater to their selfish interests so they push the failed ideas they brought with them until the states they moved to become as big a shit hole as the one they abandoned. And they call this "progress".