rifle round by cervical

[frostfire]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...aab28a5550fd06

I have my share of seeing neck GSW in resuscitation room, OR, and ICU.
99% the patient did not make it. The ER resuscitation room also convinces me of the veracity of the adage "pistol round wounds, rifle round kills."

For our medical (and forensic ammo) folks, how many scenarios have you seen with such positive outcome i.e. walking, talking, mild distress immediately after?

Also what can render such otherwise lethal round ineffective?
- Stray round at extended distance and the bullet is < 2000 fps by then?
- A ricochet/skip or near vertical impact? He reported he was bending over getting stuff from his car when struck
- FMJ design with old ammo?
- 5.56 and not 7.62, 22 caliber and not .30?
- Simply miraculous occurrence? (I have seen xray of bullet lodged in the middle of baby's head and the baby was completely age appropriate and fighting IV and NG....but I put that under soft fontanel so the skull can afford the swelling brain without herniation)

Have you seen such cases, 35NCO?

Thank you for the education.

[35NCO]

Cant read the article due to a log on needed.

Unfortunately anything I have ever been involved with has been from fatal incidents.

18Ds and MDs may have more thoughts on the trauma care and survivability.

I think you covered all the points. Projectile variables, size and location of wound, time to care, luck...

I am not a medic or have any substantial medical training. All I could say is miraculous recoveries from the seemingly medically impossible do happen. Why, we just do not always have an explanation. I suspect sometimes its just the powerful will to live.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by 35NCO

Cant read the article due to a log on needed.

Here's a working one
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...in-philippines

[35NCO]

Looks like luck to me.

Would be nice to see front or rear facing of the xray. I suspect it was very low velocity with minimal penetration. Really no deformation of the projectile at all. The discoloration of the tip of the projectile is interesting. Appears to be 7.62x39 lead ball. Because of the short distance of the tip to the meplat of the lead core, I beleive it is Russian, quite possibly Ulyanovsk FMJ.

[miclo18d]

The only "neck" injury that I have seen came from high to low, transacted the pharynx/larynx the went inferior and probably hit the aorta or heart. Needless to say an American soldier lost his life that night.

The picture of an undeformed rifle round in the neck leaves me a little suspicious of how it got here. Rifle rounds traveling at 2000-3000fps don't stop in structures such as the neck and wound cavities should generally damage a lot of tissue in an object with a diameter of about 5-6in. Major vessels such as: carotid artery, IJ, and EJ. Structures like spine and larynx and of course all of the musculature to keep your head from flopping over.

If it had been a supersonic round he's likely going to be reporting from the grave. I would guess that something slowed it down or it was fired in the air and came down and entered the skin under gravity and not propulsion.


All that to say, I've seen crazy things happen, so who knows.

[Odd Job]

Originally Posted by 35NCO

The discoloration of the tip of the projectile is interesting. Appears to be 7.62x39 lead ball. Because of the short distance of the tip to the meplat of the lead core, I beleive it is Russian, quite possibly Ulyanovsk FMJ.

The tip is not "discolored," it appears darker on the radiograph because of the effect of composite density. In this case the high density or radiographically opaque metal of the bullet is superimposed on the low density or lucent oropharynx. If you follow the lucency of the airway you see it is responsible for that radiographic change in density:

[Odd Job]

I agree with you about the likelihood that this projectile had slowed down before it hit the journalist. I have a radiograph from a similar case where a young woman took a round from a 7.62 x 39 cartridge in the chest but survived, partly because of the posterior trajectory and partly because of distance. If I can find that radiograph I will post it here.

[35NCO]

Originally Posted by Odd Job

The tip is not "discolored," it appears darker on the radiograph because of the effect of composite density. In this case the high density or radiographically opaque metal of the bullet is superimposed on the low density or lucent oropharynx. If you follow the lucency of the airway you see it is responsible for that radiographic change in density:

Thank you for your professionalism. That all makes so much sense.

I thought it was the hollow void of the projectile jacket before the meplat of the lead core showing on the scan. That is how I got to the conclusion it was lead ball fmj, and a mfg, because some have very specfic distances of tip to meplat. If there is no seperation of the metal types, then no way to really tell with a solid. Besides determine caliber with the right tools if enough remains.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/...cartridges.jpg