The Donald, on the draft and McCain.

[JJ_BPK]

1st,, I'm not defending The Donald,,

The Draft,, as I remember it:

There is a bunch of shiite going around about The Donald and his draft deferments.. Well I was drafted in March 68 so I think I can add some content, you might not like...

Class 2-S student deferments were freebees to anyone that registered in college. It lapsed at the end of the semester and you needed to reapply when you registered for the next semester. Probably EVERYONE of my HS male class had a 2S at one time or the other.

Also,, the medical deferment?? The 1-Y classification "Registrant available for military service, but qualified for military only in the event of war or national emergency" came a month after Trump underwent an “Armed Forces Physical Examination” No idea what it was for, but as stated the deferment was issued by the draft board AFTER they did the exam.

In Oct 68, 50K kids a month were being drafted.. A 1Y was not a common rating because you needed a doctor to agree. More often than not, "draft dodgers" went for the "conscientious objector, IV-W", IIIA - married with kids, or went to Canada.

Here is a list of the draft board codes: http://www.calledtoservevietnam.com/...e-vietnam-war/

On McCain:

For those that think The Donald is bad mouthing McCain with lies.. IF you look around there are McCain problems:

1)He has had a lingering problem with his POW internment and his personal actions while in prison. He was tortured repeatedly, so he deserves some slack, but like Kerry, there are those that, to this day do not like what he did. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS VIDEO IS VERIFIABLE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hr37eE0nO8

The fact that his dad was a Navy Admiral does not help. Many peers think he was given preferential treatment..

2)McCain supported Kerry AGAINST the Swift Boat effort.. For this, I give him much scorn.. McCain currently is not an admirer of Kerry because of the Iranian deal, but nobody with 1/2 a brain does..


Be Informed..

[Trapper John]

Yeah, JJ, I agree. On the 'war hero' comment by DT, the word "hero" is the most over used adjective in the English language or maybe second only to 'awesome'.

McCain was captured. In my book that does not qualify as heroic. Unfortunate maybe, but not heroic.

We all can identify true acts of heroism. McCain just doesn't rise to that level IMO. {I am mistaken in these statements, see PRB in post #10 below}

[Sigaba]

FWIW, across the street, in an active thread on this topic, a retired Tornado driver offers his professional take on McCain's conduct as an aviator (post #16).

MOO, McCain's decision to decline repatriation in 1968 should be kept in mind when discussing his time as a POW. YMMV.

IMO, this controversy is a trap.

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, this controversy is a trap.

Agreed, and I am not a fan John McCain.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

IMO, where Trump is wrong is two-fold:

1) It wasn't McCain's being captured that makes him get labeled a hero but rather the acts he took after having been captured, such as declining repatriation as Sigaba mentioned.

2) Trump's off-handed comment that he likes people who aren't captured. That would then be an insult to Michael Durant, Marcus Luttrell, etc...along with many other veterans, and could be extended, as mentioned in the POTUS thread, to people who are shot, step on an IED, etc...what bugs me is he only backtracked on this, but hasn't apologized for it.

Good points!

[tonyz]

Trump screws with the left and draws out some issues that occasionally smokes out some Republicans with weaker spines and stomachs to comment instead of hide. His presence in a debate might make for interesting discussion.

Trump was wrong on this and I don't like McCain.

Trump does not appear to be presidential material - if he ever was.

Damn good self-promoter though and that appears necessary for political office.

Agree that a Trump/McCain argument is at best a loser.

[Mills]

Originally Posted by tonyz

Trump screws with the left and draws out some issues that occasionally smokes out some Republicans with weaker spines and stomachs to comment instead of hide. His presence in a debate might make for interesting discussion.

Trump was wrong on this and I don't like McCain.

Trump does not appear to be presidential material - if he ever was.

Damn good self-promoter though and that appears necessary for political office.

Agree that a Trump/McCain argument is at best a loser.

I would like to point out regardless of how I fell about what he said.............

The utmost professionalism by Ted Cruz in this whole situation. Not a word in regards to personal feeling or bias. Everyone is bashing Trump because they are scared of him (IMO). Doubt he will be president, however I hope he can at least screw things up for Jeb Bush and the other RINOs.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

1) I interpreted Ted Cruz's actions to be a bit calculated side as opposed to straight up professional, but I could be wrong.

2) he will not support any GOP candidates but instead will run as a third party candidate. This means that he could well hand the election to Hillary Clinton.

1) agreed, When a stupid person opens their mouth, all will recognize,, but when someone keeps their mouth shut, you have a 50-50 chance of guessing their intent..



2) might make an interesting election. I am not sure the USA is ready for a multi party election, but it has proven to be effect in other countries??

McCain has survived much and his time as a POW should be lauded.

but after 45 yrs,, I think it's time to detach the hero of the past from the politician that he has become.

[Pete]

Did he say what the press tells us he said?

Of if taken in context it doesn't seem to say what the press said he said?

"Washington Post Smeared Donald Trump; Misrepresented His Comments on John McCain"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...n-john-mccain/

"...2. When a panelist characterized McCain as a “war hero,” the Post is accurate in reporting that Trump initially said McCain is “not a war hero.” But then, Trump immediately modified his statement saying– four times– that McCain is a war hero:

“He is a war hero.”

“He’s a war hero because he was captured.”

“He’s a war hero, because he was captured.”

“I believe, perhaps, he’s a war hero. But right now, he’s said some very bad things about a lot of people.”..."

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Pete

Did he say what the press tells us he said?

Of if taken in context it doesn't seem to say what the press said he said?

"Washington Post Smeared Donald Trump; Misrepresented His Comments on John McCain"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...n-john-mccain/

"...2. When a panelist characterized McCain as a “war hero,” the Post is accurate in reporting that Trump initially said McCain is “not a war hero.” But then, Trump immediately modified his statement saying– four times– that McCain is a war hero:

“He is a war hero.”

“He’s a war hero because he was captured.”

“He’s a war hero, because he was captured.”

“I believe, perhaps, he’s a war hero. But right now, he’s said some very bad things about a lot of people.”..."

MOO, this additional information make things worse for Mr. Trump.

He's getting acclaim for "telling it like it is" but now we see the man reversing himself. Which view reflects his personal beliefs versus his "politically correct" POV? Does his understanding of McCain's heroism track with what happened?

He wants to be the American president and has shown he can get baited by a panelist into saying something he automatically retracts. What happens during a debate a Democratic candidate who is deliberately trolling him? What happens when the panel consists of Putin, Xi Jinping, and others trying to gain leverage?

[blacksmoke]

John McCain served in Viet Nam
John McCain volunteered to be a fighter jet pilot, risking his life to bring the fight to the VC
John McCain cannot fully raise one of his arms because he was tortured as a POW

In my eyes John Mcain is a hero. Donald Trump is a loudmouth.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

IMO, where Trump is wrong is two-fold:

1) It wasn't McCain's being captured that makes him get labeled a hero but rather the acts he took after having been captured, such as declining repatriation as Sigaba mentioned.

2) Trump's off-handed comment that he likes people who aren't captured. That would then be an insult to Michael Durant, Marcus Luttrell, etc...along with many other veterans, and could be extended, as mentioned in the POTUS thread, to people who are shot, step on an IED, etc...what bugs me is he only backtracked on this, but hasn't apologized for it.

McCain refused to be traded out of captivity when his Dad was CINCPAC...he did not think that right. That decision is heroic.

Not a McCain fan politically but DT stepped on his very arrogant crank.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by PRB

McCain refused to be traded out of captivity when his Dad was CINCPAC...he did not think that right. That decision is heroic.

Not a McCain fan politically but DT stepped on his very arrogant crank.

You are correct and I stand corrected! Thanks

[SF_BHT]

McCain is an ass and is the consummate political tool but DT is also an Ass and stepped over the line.

McCain has issues but DT should apologize in my opinion.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

You are correct and I stand corrected! Thanks

I do agree tho that simply being a pw is not heroic.

My problem with the Bataan Death March 'celebration/road march' each year.

Commemorating the biggest surrender of American Men at arms in our history.

It should be the Col. Volckmann Memorial March.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_W._Volckmann

Those that surrendered are honored, those that chose to hide out an resist are forgotten.