The Schengen Agreement

[Sdiver]

Was handed an assignment in my Human Geography class, where my instructor was "volunteered" by one of his "higher ups", to have us write a paper on the Schengen Agreement.

He wants us to watch a couple of videos on YouTube ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UXjsajT_EU

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y91IHg72sls

After watching these videos, we are to take a position for or against having a borderless Schengen area in Europe. Explain both sides of the issue, then choose a side, either pro or con, describe our position, yada, yada, yada ...

Now, I'm NOT asking for someone to write my paper for me (although if someone wishes to step up, there could be a bag of freshly roasted De Espresso Liber coffee in it for ya ) but with several of our members currently living in Europe, and MANY of our members traveling and living there, it would be nice to get your perspective and experiences.

It's tough to form an opinion by just watching a couple of videos, I'm NO Liberal, so that's why I thought I'd reach out to those who know.

Thanks.

[Sdiver]

The floor is open.

What are your thoughts on this agreement within the EU?

[JJ_BPK]

Most of my EU travel is to the UK, so I have a limited view of the flow on the mainland.

Although the UK is not a participant of the Schengen Agreement, they have had their version, in that most persons from Crown Colonies can flow to and from the UK. I suspect this history of open boarders may have tainted their resolve to block the agreement.

Couple points.

1)the agreement was not signed by heads of state (as stated in the 1st vid). The detailed reasons why could give some argument as to a negative impact.

2)The videos are very one sided "all is so nice" as to be sickening. They look like a Socialists dream come true. Are there any videos that are not so blatantly PRO agreement?

3)Attached is a map showing the flow of jihadist to the Middle East. It it a statement as to the reason I don't support open boarders. They flowed into the EU before they flowed back..

References:

Pew Research: Future of global Muslim Populations
http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/f...gional-europe/

Middle East Forum: Europe's Shifting Immigration Dynamic
http://www.meforum.org/2107/europe-s...ration-dynamic

Migration Policy Institute: EU Membership Highlights Poland's Migration Challenges
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/artic...ion-challenges

Migration Policy Institute: Europe's Disappearing Internal Borders
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/resea...ternal-borders


If you give up your boarders, You give up your political system.

I don't like it..

My $00.00002

A Thought:

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”
― George Orwell, 1984

[JJ_BPK]

Just finished my post and read this on FB..

The source is probably rubbish,, but the theme of human flow over unguarded boarders is spot on topic..

excerp: Something very strange and sinister is going on, as Jeb Bush has been saying that he plans to do very similar things to this. Basically, the plan is to wipe out and replace the current American populace and culture with an influx of foreigners; what they are attempting to pull off here is nothing short of a slow, gentle genocide perpetrated by overlords who, like eugenicists, feel the current population is no longer good enough for them, and want to replace it with their vision of a better race. As you’ll see below, Obama’s core of this new nation are even being ordered not to assimilate. This is the plan for the final disempowerment and genocide of white, Christian America, whose values are in the way of the Grand Plan.

Read more at http://patdollard.com/2015/03/obama-...koOP4rStWAt.99

[Richard]

My MA Thesis (Great Britain's Uncodified Constitution: Threatening or Threatened?), although focused on unprotected civil liberties and governmental power balanced against an on-going internal and transnational terrorist threat, dealt with some of the issues from an EU perspective, in general, and a UK perspective, in particular.

Off the top of my head and in a nut shell, it was a far-reaching initiative of the quarter-century evolution of the ECSC, EEC, and Euratom within a relatively long (for them) period of European general social stability and political cooperation, which then progressed on to the 1987 Single European Act and the creation of the EU, the WEU, and the 'Euro' - the 'open' interior borders concepts of the Schengen Agreement being the easiest aspects of the transition from a continent of individually focused sovereign nations to a sort of Euro-federalist confederation of member states.

The 'selling point' of the initiative was mostly a monetary one related to unnecessary expenditures and multi-national bureaucratic agency 'overlap' creating a less competetive global market environment for European corporations during a time of economic belt-tightening, but the political challenges related to both the perception and reality inre to the loss of 'national sovereignty' (and 'identity'), as well as a common currency w/o a 'central bank', proved the more difficult obstacles, and continue to have an influence on EU policy initiatives to this day.

When this concept was being debated and there was a lot of publicly voiced individual national footdragging over the "What if's?" of it, I remember French President Francois Mitterand's position being "If we look back at History more than 25 years, we'll never move forward."

America's resolve to its commitment to NATO, combined with the strong leadership of Chancellor Kohl (FRG), President Mitterand (FR), and PM Thatcher (UK), were also key factors influencing these initiatives.

As an aside, I remember succinctly my amazement at the dramatic difference between the ease of traveling within the EU while at the AmEmbassy-Bonn in 1990 from what it had been like a little over a decade earlier.

I'd suggest looking at the SEA of 1987 to add perspective and focus to the understanding of the Schengen Agreement.

And so it goes...

Richard

[Lighthouse]

This is a great topic to discuss. I was fortunate to get stationed in the Netherlands at a point that Germany and Belgium were both a 10 minute drive in either direction. Got to see the good, bad, and ugly that came with open borders.

[Sdiver]

Thanks all for the input. It's exactly what I'm looking for.

As JJ pointed out, we were given those two videos to make an informed opinion on, and as JJ put it, and to which I agree, they were/are very "Pro, Rah, Rah" videos.

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

This is a great topic to discuss. I was fortunate to get stationed in the Netherlands at a point that Germany and Belgium were both a 10 minute drive in either direction. Got to see the good, bad, and ugly that came with open borders.

What is it that you saw as far as the "good, bad and ugly" parts go?

Would be interested in your perspective.

[Jgood]

Recently experienced the open border and two things.

1) If your a tourist/traveler its great and allows for freedom of movement on a minutes notice, multiple modes of transportation and not unusual to see foreigners

2) Every thing as above but for the bad guy

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by Sdiver

Thanks all for the input. It's exactly what I'm looking for.

As JJ pointed out, we were given those two videos to make an informed opinion on, and as JJ put it, and to which I agree, they were/are very "Pro, Rah, Rah" videos.



What is it that you saw as far as the "good, bad and ugly" parts go?

Would be interested in your perspective.

The Good
To the traveler and resident of the EU open borders are great. Especially in the area I lived in being close to both Belgium and Germany. It reminded me of living in the Tri-State of NY, NJ, and PA but (without the $13 toll into NYC) with the Netherlands being the most expensive. It provided people a chance to work for higher salaries and competitive market pricing between the 3 countries. It was great not worrying about getting hassled by a border security or it being a necessity to keep your passport with you at all times (although my family and I did regardless). This freedom of travel commerce I think facilitated the attitude within the area to a point where people were friendly and very personable. They were showed a lot of apathy towards people coming from the east from living hard and making a better life for themselves and their families.

The Bad
Each respective nation had it's own cultures, customs, traditions, etc. and because of that the Netherlands had this system of where non violent offenses are "tolerated." Now if the offense is committed enough the law will change to accommodate the people so long as it is non violent. This is to the point where home invasions are so frequent that they changed the law to where the first floor of your dwelling is actually considered public space. If you are confronted with a thief you're only allowed to tell them to leave. If you do harm to them they may actually sue you in court and chances are they will also win. The most interesting thing about that was that the majority of the time the guys were across the border.

Another thing about people using the system to their advantage; The Dutch tax income at 49%. The reason is to fund socialist programs they have. While great in theory they don't seem to consider people abusing the programs. You will have a person with a Dutch residency receiving plenty of welfare and moving out into Belgium where the cost of living of much lower.

The Ugly
Trafficking (weapons, drugs, and people) was/is a huge issue in the Netherlands. They have a social program for prostitution where if a prostitute could prove she was on the run from traffickers the Dutch Government was willing to help her return home (but since that was a failure because often times they would end up captured again) they would provide them homes and jobs in a different part of the country. Illicit Drugs still flooded the streets despite the marijuana tolerance. It's no secret Muslims use drugs to fund terrorist or any other despicable means. Holland is only a 27 hour drive from Istanbul. Open borders only inconveniences traffickers with a long drive. The Muslim population expansion within Europe is a direct result of the open borders. Not to say that there aren't other undesirables but muslims take the cake by far.

Muslim immigrants were responsible for most if not all of the violent crimes committed especially with regards to sexual assaults and rapes. They were mainly of either Moroccan or of Turkish decent. There were two terrorists attacks that happened while I was in Europe. One when a Flemish born Moroccan Nordine Amrani threw grenades and fired FN FAL at a crowd during a Christmas market in Liege. He wounded over 70 people, murdered 3, and then committed suicide. Nordine Amrani was also a known drug trafficker. The second was in Germany where two US MIL were killed at a Frankfurt airport. Also another Muslim. S2 told us that Europe in almost it's entirety was a moderate level threat for a terrorist attack.

My final conclusion from it all was that Europe being so lax with its travel and immigration are being so exploited there they are essentially funding their own destruction and possibly one of the highest paying supporters of terrorism directly or indirectly.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Sdiver

Now, I'm NOT asking for someone to write my paper for me (although if someone wishes to step up, there could be a bag of freshly roasted De Espresso Liber coffee in it for ya ) but with several of our members currently living in Europe, and MANY of our members traveling and living there, it would be nice to get your perspective and experiences.

Sdiver--

The Ivory Tower has rules of the road which are often assumed to be common knowledge but sometimes aren't widely know--especially by 'non traditional' students. A question like "What is your POV on X based upon the course materials?" is distinctly different than "What is your POV on X based upon the course materials and your conversations with others, including SMEs?"

For your own protection, please make sure that you are in compliance with the course syllabus and your school's policies IRT using POVs developed outside of the assignment's framework.

[Sdiver]

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's input, experiences and stories.

Paper was handed in at the beginning of the week, and grade just posted online tonight. Received max points for said paper.

My professor LOVED the idea of posting this question on this board/social media. I had told him about the idea when we were first handed the assignment and he loved it. Was telling all his other classes, who were also tasked to write the same paper, about doing this. I don't know if anyone else did. They don't have the GREAT resource that is PS.com ... (I gotta get some brownie points for that.)

He said that's really "thinking outside the box", to where I told him, "I don't think outside the box, I just expand my box."

Once again, thanks all for your input.

[FlagDayNCO]

After I left the Real Army in 1992, I resided in The Netherlands with my Dutch wife... the First Mrs. Flag Day NCO.

FIrst of all, that tri-border region of NL, Belgium and Germany is a very unique area. Those people are more Germanic than anything and freely moved across the borders for years. Families have members on all sodes of the borders. Across the street may be in another country.

When stationed in West Germany, we noted that the various provinces of Germnay had their unique cultures. Same goes for NL and Belgium. Belgium was sort of split in tow; half leaning towards France and half towards NL.

The Netherlands was a truly unique experience. For such a small nation, the various regions had unique cultures. Friesland was way up North and the people there even spoke a language that wasn't Dutch. Schools taught lessons different than the typical Dutch system. My brother-in-law's wife was from there. My wife's parents were from Breda (south, near Germany) and had differing political and social views than the people from the Randstad, which is the larg "ring" that made up the most densly populated cities.

I'll say that the border checks were never a hassle. Border agents would board trains and check passengers as the train traveled. I never had an issue, either with American identification or Dutch identification. They would take interest in Muslims, as though Turkey was a European nation, many people claiming toi be from there were actually from other Muslim nations.

And yes, the majority of the violent crime taking place in Amsterdam was by Muslims. Been that way for decades.

Most abductions were traced back to Muslim gangs. I say Muslim, as they could be Moroccan, Lebanese, Saudi, Turkish, etc. Drugs and weapons came up, abductees and cash went down. I doubt it has changed much, except the routes have spread out all over Europe.

What I found interesting is most Dutch people identified that the problems were the Muslims coming into their nation, and the Citizens were getting more angst because of it. This did not slow down the Socialists and their drive to eliminate the individual national identities. Sounds like America today. The political and the powerful have their agenda and the people be damned.